Small Hands

[mandocrucian]

Just wondering how many folks out there are dealing with the issue of hand size/scale length.

Do you have to use your pinky to reach notes at the 6th fret? Or even the 5th fret? (I am assuming the (now) "standard" scale length of 13-7/8".) Maybe it's only on the bottom string(s) that you have to use the pinky for the 6th fret?

If so, what is the length of your middle finger? (measure from the crease at the base of finger to the tip) I want to come up with some ratio between finger/hand size that quantifies the point where alternative small hand fingerings are needed. Thanks,

Niles H.

[Lee]

How long is it? Mine measures 3-1/4" from crease to end of tip. I learned "violin" fingering and Mr. Pinky can reach fret #8 without overly stretching. By the way, Mr. Pinky is 2-1/2" long.
If you ask any more questions you might need to PM me. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandodebbie]

My middle finger is less than 2 inches long. My pinky is about 1 1/4 inches. I had a thread in the Bluegrass section about managing chop chords with my "teeny-tiny" hands. I have since absolved to abbreviate the four finger chop chords to the more managable three finger positions. Anyway, I still manage to s t r e t c h my little pinky to the sixth, seventh, and eighth frets when attempting double stops. I have been only playing mando for just over a year, so these are still just attempts. Another issue that can be taken into consideration is the thickness of the mando's neck. A smaller hand would be most comfortable with a thin stalk rather than a great big log (like on my first cheapy mando). Hope this helps you. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Pedal Steel Mike]

Bruce Weber designed an fretboard that effectively solves this problem. The frets are all at about a 30 degree angle. I must admit, it looks ridiculous. But the angled frets lower the degree to which it's necessary to stretch to hit the chop chords. The difference in the comfort level is not subtle. It is a major improvement.

I do not have have small hands, and stretching is not a problem for me. But when I tried out one of Bruce's mandolins with this new fretboard, the difference as immediately noticable and quite profound.

As far as I know, Bruce only made a few prototypes, and the response (from people who looked at them but did not try them out) was reject them. Too bad. this is a significant improvement in fretboard design. it's definately the answer for people who have trouble reaching all the grets when making chop chords.

[Jasper]

My hands are almost the same measurements as Lee in the second post; if my middle finger is on the third fret, it's not much of a problem to get to the second fret on first/second strings. Chop chords aren't much of a problem, but I have no extra margin to go to the eighth fret.

[fatt-dad]

Ah, the benefits of being tall. . . . I just can't find a car to fit - ha.

fatt pinky-reaches-but-remains-uncoordinated dad

[LilCreekster]

I'm with ya... though I CAN reach the 6th fret with my ring finger, esp. on the higher strings I find it more comfortable (less strain) to use my pinky. Hey, I figure it gives my pinky that much more "action" LOL... esp. in songs that wouldn't generally require it's use.

I also have skinny fingers so I can fit 2 fingers in adjacent stings on the same fret. So I suppose I should be thankful for that, eh?

I did get a chance to play the piccolo mandolin... and I must admit... I'd be THRILLED if that was a normal mando scale hahaha.

[ira]

though i can do it, difficult for me at times with the G chop to be fluid moving from g-to another chop chord -and back. from that position 8th fret is out of the question. from the a or further up the neck, i have much more mobility. wish i had known about that weber technique with angling the frets- i don't care how it looked i would've had my frets angled that way.
didn't measure my fingers, but if you need that info niles, i will do so.

[groveland]

I don't have particularly large hands: Middle finger measures from the base crease at 3.5", pinky at 2.5" - I can effectively play a Dm with the pinky at the 10th fret and the index finger at the first fret, low to high: F, A, D, F. #I play a Rigel A+ Deluxe.

(Edit) I keep my thumb behind the neck, allowing a lot of stretch.

[Bobbie Dier]

Middle 3"........ 3 1/8 including the callus. The pinky is where I was robbed it's..1 7/8
I still use it though. Trying to keep the little bugger still is the real trick. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[merv]

In my family I have small hands but my middle finger measures 3 1/4 " and pinky is 2 3/8 " . Can easily reach the sixth fret with ring finger even with index finger on the first fret . Have been playing only a couple of years and had to do alot of stretching exercises . Playing scales in the closed position helps to keep me loose. At 54 keeping loose is very important.

[mrchurch]

Middle finger 3 5/8".... Pinky is 2 3/4". #Just wish they weren't so fat on the ends. (sausage paws).

Michael

[mrchurch]

Just out of curiosity I measured my wife's hands (she doesn't play mandolin). #Her middle finger is 3 1/2" and her pinky is 2 1/2"....wish we could swap left hands.

Michael

[jbrwky]

Niles, I always thought I had small hands. Middle finger from the crease is 3.25" little finger 2 3/8" No issue with 4 finger chop chord forms. When you say "reach the 6th fret" from where do you mean, the 2nd fret (G chord) or the first fret 7th chords?

[Santiago]

It's not the size, it's what you can do with it... unless you're playing fretless bass.

[Billiam]

Middle finger = 3-1/4"

Pinkie = 2-1/4"

I can just reach a G chop chord, but it's a stretch. I never use the pinkie at the 6th fret.

[hungry mountain boy]

Its a stretch for me on the G or a strain anyway, and my middle finger is a bit more than 3 1/4 and my pinky is a bit more than 2 1/4. The four finger A is more comfortable. Glenn

[1860]

How about having a bent pinky? For some reason my DNA was screwed up such that my pinkys (plural of small finger is?) are bent at something like a 30 degree angle above the last joint. So I have to go through contortions to reach the 7th or god forbid the 8th fret. I think I will have to order that thumbpress soon to straighten it out.

[Vincent]

I have small hands (middle=3 1/4"), still have trouble with the stretch, but feel like stretching over time will get me there. Grismans hands are smaller than mine, but I remember watching him fret Bb on the D string from first position no problem playing EMD...

[John Rosett]

i guess i have medium sized hands-3 1/2" middle finger, and 2 1/2" little finger. my problem is osteoarthritis in my little finger. it's bent towards my ring finger. i've pretty much stopped doing the 4 finger chop chord. i don't play much bluegrass, so it's not that big of a deal.
the most comfortable mandolin for me is my '13 gibson A. it feels like there's less string tension, and it's easier for that pinky to push down a string, even when extended. i've been thinking about having a short scale (13 1/4" - 13 1/2")
mandolin built. it seems like the less string tension there is, the more lightly the box could be made, and that might help with the volume loss you'd get with decreased tension.

[Richard Polf]

You guys don't know what small hands are. I've got 2.75" for my middle finger. I've tried everthing I can think of for the past 5 yrs to stretch to play a G chop chord on a 13 7/8" mandolin. If hours of practice and desire would have gotten me there it would have happened by now. Pretty much have given up on playing Bluegrass due the fact that the "Bluegrass Police" seem ot only accept one form of the G chord as appropriate. I've gone back to something I can handle --- Jazz Guitar (my first love) --- where there is more than one acceptable way to play. It's weird to say, but the Guitar is easier for small-handed folks than the Mandolin, in my experience.

[mandroid]

Sat in a pub jam with Irish players,over there , including a rather young woman on the banjo, irish tuning of course, and she got around quite well, the scale on those is more than 18" ...

[groveland]

"Bluegrass Police" seem ot only accept one form of the G chord
I see from your other posts you're jazz all the way... Why aren't you playing jazz mandolin? From the posts on this thread, I'm starting to feel like a minority jazz fan in a big bluegrass world! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

<soapbox>Forget about that G chop chord. You don't need it. Mandolin is an extraordinary jazz instrument and I think it's our loss if we limit it in any way to bluegrass. With your background, you should be able to tear that thing up!</soapbox>

[ira]

got out the ruler today.
middle finger: 3" even
pinky: 2 1/4"

[ira]

hey niles- how about a book/series of tips, licks, fingerings for those of us in the finger length challenged....

[AlanN]

For a practice thing, play the opening salvo on Dawg's Rag, all on the D string...0-3-8-0-3-7-0-3-8-0-3-7, etc. I use index and ring for all fretted notes, that does indeed stretch things.

[elenbrandt-redux]

Hi Niles... #2 7/8 on the middle finger, 2 1/8 on the pinky.
(Yeah, you guys with over 3" #quit complainin')

Quite honestly, I have never had someone ask me to give them the middle finger before.....Hmmmmm.....Every time I have to do runs with the 7th finger on the bass strings it is a struggle. A full G chord -- sure, in my dreams....

I would REALLY appreciate the solutions you might be able to devise.

Thanks again!

[bratsche]

Every time I have to do runs with the 7th finger on the bass strings it is a struggle.

Seems nothing should be a struggle with 7 fingers. ;)

For the record, if a tally's being kept, mine are
middle: 3 1/16"
pinkie: 2 3/8"

I never play chop chords, but some Bach chords are a beotch...

bratsche

[mandocrucian]

You might be interested in the general way glove size is determined by looking at the following sites. #The sizing varies a little from one manufacturer to another, but what some folks are calling small (middle finger 3" or 3.25") would probably be a medium.

<a href="http://www.walkabout.com/shop/size_glove.asp" target="_blank">
Sizing: Gloves</a>

Hand Circumference -
Impacto Size - X-Small
Hand Size - 6
Hand Circumference - 6" - 7", 15 - 18 cm

Impacto Size - Small
Hand Size - 7
Hand Circumference - 7" - 8", 17 - 20 cm

Impacto Size - Medium
Hand Size - 8
Hand Circumference - 8" - 9", 20 - 23 cm

Impacto Size - Large
Hand Size - 9
Hand Circumference - 9" - 10", 23 - 25 cm

Impacto Size - X-Large
Hand Size - 10
Hand Circumference - 10" - 11", 25 - 28 cm

<a href="http://www.fingergloves.com/Finger_Gloves_Sizing_Guide.htm" target="_blank">
Finger Gloves</a>

http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/ironcladsizing.asp

As far as what I was talking about re: how far would the pinky reach. #This was on one-string, single line notes rather than chop chords. #And without undo stretching (and contortions).

If the the 3rd finger remains down on the string (5th or 6th fret), the pinky can reach 2 frets higher, and if one stretches the extension, can probably make it 3 frets. Some folks might make it 4 frets. #The distance between the first finger and pinky will tend to expand because the hand may be stretching in two directions, 1st finger towards the nut, pinky towards the bridge. #And if you work at this stuff, you can usually increase your range.

But I'm not really interested in the distance in contortionist stretches for the purposes of this thread. But rather the natural extension of the pinky when playing comfortably in the first position.

Now, I can arrive at some calculations by working in another direction - increasing the scale length (mandola, tenor banjo etc with or without capos) to find at what points/lengths, for my hand size/finger length, pinky at the 6th fret becomes more ergonomically efficient, and then where full-fledge OM fingering (one finger per fret, pinky usually at the 5th fret, kicks in. Then get the finger-lenth/scale length ratio for those, and work backwards by multiplying that ratio by standard 13-7/8" to find the equivalent in regards to smaller hand sizes. (at least on the standard width neck).

NH

[glauber]

My problems with the pinky have been more of strength than stretch. The stretch between the middle and ring fingers is a lot harder for me (and the main cause of trouble for me with the G "chop" chord) than the pinky.

[man doh]

I guess I picked the wrong instrument being 6'4". #My middle finger is 3-7/8 and pinky 2-7/8. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif