Lessons learned

[PhilGE]

Had an interesting experience this morning. I was part of "the Faithful Bread" today at a church conference worship service. To keep this message concise, I'll post some pointers learned.

a) I'd want to discuss and maybe walk through the staging - any #entrances, exits, pauses, etc, not just rehearse the music.
b) I'd request to stand next to other acoustic musicians so I could get musical cues from them.
c) I'd make notes about intros to hymns, rhythms, instrumentation, and staging on my song list.
d) I'd make a point to remind myself that this was a worship service, not a hang-loose old-time gig, and that the "audience" is not going to respond like a jam, concert, or dance.

These are all things I hope to keep in mind and ask for clarification before "the next time." All things to consider when "practicing" for a performance. It was a good experience will help me a lot "the next time."

I'd be intersted to hear others experience in staging, performance, cuing, etc. as part of a band/worship band.

-Phil

[John Flynn]

It sounds like you had an interesting experience doing some chuch music and all did not go completely well. If you feel like sharing some of the details either on the board on email, I'd be happy to listen and I'm sure I can commisurate. I have been doing liturgical/worship music at church for about 25 years and I have seen just about every faux pas imaginable.

It is hard to get up in front of a congregation of hundreds of people and be part of a service. It is a whole different challenge than playing a dance or a performance gig. Not necessarily always harder, but different. All those lessons learned you listed are good. Be advised they still don't cover every thing that can happen. I think especially in church music, you really have to understand the worship service you are a part of and be able to think on your feet.

[PhilGE]

Well, we have a pretty "loose" pick-up band as it is, with 2 to 3 talented core members, some intermediate folks like myself, and more challenged folk who enjoy performing. We have a pretty inclusive church and the band is a reflection of that. The core members have all performed for worship and gigs for years. The others get pulled along and grow with their experience. We're not at all traditional, but have a very nice sound that many folk enjoy for worship. The line-up on Sunday evenings is often mandolin/autoharp, bass/cello, guitar, and mandolin/OM (me). Other folks are more sporadic in participation. The congregation sits in very large semi-circle with the band at one far end at the front with most folks in the "usual" seats. So, I've grown used to sitting in the same space, rehearsing in the same manner, and holding worship in the same manner.

To try and keep this concise, I was performing in an unfamilar church, with an unfamiliar worship service, standing up on platform on the far side of the podium with most everyone else on other side, in front of many movers and shakers of our congregation in our region. Gee, no pressure! Gee, did my brain fall-out when I entered the sanctuary or what?

So, I did feel very anxious and did an okay job. I blew the intros to some of the hymns, but recovered pretty well. I lead a hymn based on Ash Grove and pulled that off without any mistakes.

Ha! There I was, trying to play music for worship - and I didn't ask God for any help. Whew... I participated in the group prayers, but didn't give it up for myself - didn't let go. Now that's a good lesson for this Sunday morning. Given all this, I'm going to ask for prayer for myself and the band before we start rehearsals from now on.

Peace,
Phil

[John Flynn]

Sounds like you did pretty well in some challenging circumstances. The lesson I would add to your list is, and it sounds like you did this already: When a mistake happens, get it behind you immediately and move on. Don't get "stuck."

[Ray Neuman]

And always ask that Great Banjo Player in the sky for assistance. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

the multi instrumentalist professir

PS: I was a pastor for 20 years, and can attest to Church music being MUCH harder to limit the jitters then any other "gig". Good job playing!

[Doug Edwards]

The group I play with does all Gospel. We make it a point to pray before (sometimes during) every practice, and performance (churches or wherever). You want to do your best in front of an audience, but the real perpective is doing your best before the Lord to please Him. I can mess up but it usually goes unnoticed cause He's really good at smoothing out the bumps.

[WireBoy]

Another Sunday morning soldier reporting in here. #i find rehersals very important to get all the technical 'who comes in where and when' stuffed ironed out AND marked on your 'set list/ worship guide'. #when sunday mass begins everyone knows what they are doing and you can actually pray instead of worrying what comes next.

[Ted Eschliman]

I've found my experience in worship music not only to be an ego-free "safe harbor," but an incredibly rewarding activity. Coming from more "mercenary" past playing environments, I've enjoyed the absence of self-centered musician more often in exchange for the selfless.
Sure, you're still dealing with human beings (sinners, if you will), but with the higher goal of pleasing Someone Else, the heavy responsibility of bringing an entire congregation to the altar (both metaphorically and literally), team individual egos are much more frequently checked at the door. We are driven by a much higher goal than self-satisfaction, but in the end, self-fulfillment remains an incredible fringe benefit.
The staging, performance, cueing issues Phil brings up are always there, but the spirit of cooperation and higher purpose seems to balance pursuit of excellence with crew competency limits. As long as we never forget why we are there, the devil is not in the detail (pun intended).
We aren't without challenges, and it seems we are actually best in those situations when we are stretched. (Not just musical, but issues of personality.) I'm always amazed what God does with what our W.T. brings to the table Sunday mornings.
It's almost always a case of the collective sum being greater than its parts.

[Doug Edwards]

Amen, brother Ted.

[MandoJon]

I've found my experience in worship music not only to be an ego-free "safe harbor," but an incredibly rewarding activity.

Me too. It's not a performance and if it becomes one then it's time the band started rethinking their priorities IMHO.

I've not taken my Mandolin along yet because my "job" is to hold down a solid steady rhythm on the guitar because we don't have drums and there's nothing worse than when the congregation get out of step with the band. I leave all the subtle stuff to the "orchestral" instruments.

[PhilGE]

This is all very helpful!

Please continue...

[John Flynn]

And always ask that Great Banjo Player in the sky for assistance.
God is a banjo player? That's depressing!


I've found my experience in worship music not only to be an ego-free "safe harbor," but an incredibly rewarding activity.
Ego-free is what it needs to be and what it is at its best, but I have seen plenty of ego in church music, especially among church music directors. It really ruins the experience when it happens, but in my experience, it happens a lot. If you have not encountered that, you are a lucky church musician!

[glauber]

(I'm afraid this thread may be uncomfortable to mandolin players of other religious faiths, and if so i apologize.)

I've played in a lot of Christian contexts, church and non-church, in 3 countries http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif and i've seen the lot of it, the good, the bad and the ugly.

I think it's great that churches provide a safe environment for many musicians to learn to play with and for other people. I think the current tendency to over-spiritualize the experience as "playing for an audience of one" is ok if it helps you, but it also diminishes the experience of making music together with your peers, which really is what it's all about (unless Larry LaPrise (http://www.answers.com/topic/larry-laprise) was right). So, don't force it on others.

Play whenever and wherever you can, play with other people, in a respectful way, because music is God's gift to us all, and it's best enjoyed with others.

[Gibby]

We play fairly often at our church on Sundays and also from time to time at other churches in the evenings. #We love it. #God has richly blessed us with pretty good vocals and passable instrumentation. #I am enjoying the conversation in this thread.

Our biggest problem is PRACTICE TIME! #Too busy with work and kids and such to fine time to really work at new material or getting better.

Ego-free is the only way too go. #In fact, as all 3 of us sing, we always divi-up our material to make sure that we are evenly dividing the roles we play. #I play with two (and sometimes 3) of the most blessed people I know.

[glauber]

If not ego-free, i would at least settle for egg-free. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[TommyK]

WRT 'audience response re:
d) I'd make a point to remind myself that this was a worship service, not a hang-loose old-time gig, and that the "audience" is not going to respond like a jam, concert, or dance.

Not all worshipers are created equal.. If you're not familiar with the congregation you could witness everything from 'bead mumblers' to 'holy rollers'! #No disrespect intended, but the above euphemisms are appropriate descriptions here (I am one of the above and at one time or another been both). #
I've been a part of very docile congregations who uttered hardly a peep, but had all kinds of back slaps of appreciation afterword. .. to .. yes rolling and dancing in the aisles with plenty of whoops and hollers DURING the celebration.. Be prepared for anything or, better yet, attend the services a week ahead soes you can be prepared and maybe adjust your song selections.

[Windflite]

I also just played my first worship service a couple of weeks ago. #We did share a prayer before playing which was very helpful as I was very nervous (to say the least). #It turned out to go without a hitch and was really fun! (at least from our side of the mike...) To add to the checklist of preparatory items for next time...I would strongly suggest making time to practice AT the venue (sanctuary, gym, outside, whatever!) #The acoustics in the church were TOTALLY different than where we had practiced and hearing each other (no monitors) was difficult at best. # #Our next adventure is probably going to be doing a few free gigs at nursing homes. #Great time playing and a great way to bring smiles to a lot of faces! # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Big Joe]

I've been playing in church for 40 years. That is where I cut my musical teeth and still play in our church worship band. I play guitar most of the time. With all the electic instruments it is too loud for the mandolin. I often play acoustic or arch top guitar with a pickup in it. It is pretty ego free. In Nashville it is a bit different from most parts of the country because EVERY church has incredible musicians and music. There are always a group of people in the pews that can outpick most of the band, and the bands are often professional musicians.

We rarely get practice time. We have no music and no charts. We sometimes get a song list and the key we expect to kick the song off in. It will often change on the spur of the moment and we have long since learned to just dig in and go. We usually do a pretty good job and seem to make it work. We have to listen carefully to follow the leader so we know where he is going, but that does improve our ear and make us better players.

All in all, I enjoy playing in church and find it one of the better parts of my week. I've played with some very incredible musicians over the years and have learned a lot from them. One thing about Nashville, it only has an A game. Gotta love it!

[Evets]

Above all the technical details, make sure you're not just playing, but WORSHIPING!

[Hal Loflin]

My first stage experience with a mandolin was in our church. It was a great experience due to the encouragement and appreciation that the members of the P&W Team gave me. After that first time, several "bluegrassers" (is that a word?) approached me and we put together a group and at a later date played The Isaacs, "He Aint Never Done Me Nothing But Good" and brought the house down, mainly due to this little saprano lady that jsut nailed it! Folks really enjoyed it.

I was then included in a special Christmas Carol service which was all acoustic and the mandolin fit in great. Can't wait until this Christmas. IMHO the church is a perfect place to get experience and mostly due that you are accepted and appreciated for your effort. Everytime that I play at church, just before I go on stage, I say a little prayer and dedicate my playing to God. I believe He enjoys our playing regardless of any mistakes.

Oh, by the way....I understand that God was a banjo player but when Brother Monroe arrived in Heaven he gave God a Loar F5 and converted Him to mandolin.[B]

[gnelson651]

I also play in a church band which I enjoy. In fact it was the church band that got me started playing the mandolin. Prior, I played the b*nj@ but the band already had a b*nj@ player (our pastor) And I thought 2 b*nj@s is just too much. Which I why now play the mandolin (I quit the b*nj@ after 30 years of playing, so I an a reformed musician).

Our band is mostly young people in our church with only 2 of us oldsters, the music director and me. We primarily play informally at our montly potlucks but we try to pick songs that the congregation can song. We also like to feature our teenager's talent and they can play a solo or duet and it doesn't have to be worship music. We will also do special music on Sundays when our pianist and organist are absent or want to take a break.

We are having an upcoming 4th of July picnic in the mountains so we are gearing up to play just about anything, OT, Bluegrass or Gospel. This will be more of a jam session than a standard performance.

Its great fun but I agree that it has t be in the proper context,especially in worship services.

Glenn Nelson
Las Vegas, NV

[MandoJon]

Our biggest problem is PRACTICE TIME! Too busy with work and kids and such to fine time to really work at new material or getting better.

Too true. We set aside a saturday about twice a year to introduce a wad of new material to the band and then rely on an hour's practice before the morning service of the songs for the service and any time left over to practice one we haven't played in a while. We also have a warm-up run through and tune up for 15 minutes before the evening service. It works reasonably well.

I'd like to get a praise evening going once a quarter (or so) but I go to a traditional Presbeterian church in Scotland so I don't know how well that idea will go down, especially if I sneak out my Mandolin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Flatpick]

Prayer before a worship service is a must.

Asking for the anointing and unity for the singers and musician's. Musician's tend to be colorful and have their own identities which can lead to ego's if there is no unity.

Understanding that you are there not to please yourself, but that you are in service to God. A music minister if you will. Take this position very serious. The praise and worship leads God's people into His presence which sets up their hearts and minds for the Pastor to deliver the Word.

God Bless all........ Flatpick

[David M.]

In reference to Phil's feelings (sounds like it may have been touch-n-go at some point during the music), I think it's very important to have a worship leader. #A person who leads worship by leading the music and band. #I'm lucky because we have this role at our church. #It's usually the music pastor (young, energetic very talented songwriter/singer), but when he's not around, he appoints someone else to lead worship. #This is not the main pastor and not a choir director.

I grew up traditional Methodist. #Stand up at the right time. #Sit down at a certain time. #Played at this church a bit growing up, but it was pretty formal in its service, which is OK.

The church we go to now is a growing, large church with the largest attendance in this town. #I'm often invited to play fiddle and mandolin when they want to "go acoustic" or "mellow". #Usually it's everything from jazz combo stuff to rock grunge stuff and I don't play with them during these types of music. #It's by invitation only to play w/the band, so they call me when they see a fit for me. #I may have been the first there to fiddle and chop during worship.

Our music pastor's thoughts: #low predictability = high impact / high pred. = low impact. #So he mixes it up alot. #And we practice usually Sat. afternoon before the Sat. night service (and there's a Sun. night service). #With this type of stuff you ALWAYS need to be on your toes and ready to change gears quickly. #It's always a great feeling to worship by giving music up.

And our congregation gets into the music and claps, hoots if a fiddle solo's going, etc. #Great bunch to play for.

Here's a link to see what our music pastor's band (core worship band at church) is up to: #http://www.andrewlandersproject.com