How many chord changes...

[Jasper]

I play with a group at church. It has been one of those good/bad type relationships. The fellow who leads the group plays piano and is quite a good musician. Unfortunately, unlike him, I haven't been playing for 30 years...only about 2 and 1/2 years. Some of the medleys we play have as many as six chords, that's five chord changes, in one line of a song. Tell me, do you all think that is a bit too many, or am I just inept? Don't worry, the truth won't kill me or make me cry.

[fredfrank]

Bluegrass only has three.

[John Flynn]

I have been playing church music for about 25 years and that is part of the deal. It just tends to have a lot of chords and a lot of fast changes. It is a challenging kind of music and it requires a lot chords that few of musicians ever learn, like diminished, augmented and my fave, the the Am7b5. One thing that helps, and I know the bluegrass police will be all over me here but I don't care, is a capo. I don't use a capo for bluegrass, old-time or rock, but for church music, it is very helpful. Another help is to figure out that the way a lot of liturgical music is harmonized, a lot of changes aren't absolutely necessary, they are more like embellishments. You can work out which chords you don't need to do if the changes are too hard.

[pdlstl]

Bluegrass only has three.
sometimes two...

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Your group leader, as a pianist, may be playing more changes than you as a mandolin player need to. You can ask your group leader to try to simplify the changes for you. That way you may need to play only four (three changes) in that line when he or she plays them all. Similarly, you may be able to substitute some easier chords for the ones your piano player is using (like D7 for Fdim).

Good luck!

Daniel

[mandroid]

I would think the chord changes can be pretty well covered by the pianist,
so you get to concentrate on creating a complementary melody line.

[Peter Hackman]

I play with a group at church. It has been one of those good/bad type relationships. The fellow who leads the group plays piano and is quite a good musician. Unfortunately, unlike him, I haven't been playing for 30 years...only about 2 and 1/2 years. Some of the medleys we play have as many as six chords, that's five chord changes, in one line of a song. Tell me, do you all think that is a bit too many, or am I just inept? Don't worry, the truth won't kill me or make me cry.
the answer depends a LOT on the exact role of your instrument
in the ensemble

[steve in tampa]

I have been sitting in with different folks, and have learned that what you don't play is just as, If not more important that what you do play.

If you know the material, think ahead and be ready to come in on parts where you can be the most complementary to the piece.

You are not obligated to play every measure!

[kudzugypsy]

i too, would sit down with the leader and have him coach you on just what it is he wants you to add to the arrangements. let me tell you...you will NEVER be able to compete harmonicly with a piano - he has 88 keys and 2 hands, plus his instrument is bigger and louder. that said, there will be things you can do in the arrangement outside of tring to play harmonicly right along with the pianist - even if you could - that wouldnt be necessary-he has already covered those chords and your 4 strings arent going to add anything and problably just get drowned out.
its all about the arrangements with other instruments...sometimes you just sit out for a few bars.

[fredfrank]

Bluegrass only has three.
sometimes two...
Yeah, those two chord tunes are my favorite. I was only thinking - "worst case scenario" when I said three.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ShaneJ]

Just be glad you don't play in a Western Swing band! You'd have at least two chords per measure, about 10 - 15 chords per song, and none of them would end in "maj". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[groveland]

I've been doing music in the church for a while - Where I come from, sadly, there's really no call for mando...

But! I feel very confident saying that in church, where there is congregational participation, there's a finite, and therefore predictable, set of things that can happen. In my experience, our church maintains over 250 tunes of many genres that can be called out at any time. Even with all that material, you would be surprised how much is predictable.

So I would add this to the great advice already posted: Get familiar with predictable changes in general, where in any tune you can hear those changes coming, and start putting together a toolbox to handle them. Let everyone else do the chord heavy-lifting. Be a consistent thread through the tune and provide the highlights.

Above all, be encouraged - remember why you're doing this.

Craig

[WireBoy]

Well Jasper,
#you have had some excellent advice offered up here. i too play in mando in our Catholic church ensemble ( we work mostly out of the Oregon Catholic Press 'Gather' book). #Plenty of chord changes is the nature of the beast. #

let me echo some of the tips listed here that also work for me. #Let your piano man handle the tricky rapid changes, you just accent the chords on the 1 and 3 beats (or 2 and 4). #you'll end up creating your own rhythym part, complimentary to but different from the guitars.

like steve in tampa sez, its important what you don't play too. #join in on selected portions of the tune. #too often a song starts up and EVERYONE feels they have to play all the time. songs tend to sound dynamically dead this way. #come in only between the verses/refrain, it'll sound like y'all spent a long time working out your 'arrangement'. #

Or mix it up, sometimes the refrain is easier to strum to and them pick a melody or harmony line for the verse (where most of those nasty Abmaj7s reside) #this helps open up some 'space' for the vocalist here too. #while the guitarists struggle with a pretzel grip to nail that 'chord', all you have to do is cleanly pick one or two notes through the measure. #

if you're faced with a chord with a fancy extensions, #you don't have to do all the work. #Let the guitars and pianos find the sus4 and 9ths, you can just play the root chord or part of the root chords (double stops sure sound sweet)

and, just like my hero Mando Johnny, get a capo and be unafraid to use it. #the guitarists might even think its cute. #

of course all this depends on Peter Hackmans point. #What is your role in the ensmeble? #if its just you and the piano, you have a hard road ahead, but if there are a few guitars, bass, percusion, you are just sprinkly frosting on the cake and can have all sorts of fun

[8ch(pl)]

I do the church mandolin thing. Fortunately we don't have anyone in our group who is trained musically. our guitar player handles the chord changes, even the ones written to change for each melody note. He uses a capo. I mostly try to do a melody or harmony tremola. Depending on the key of the song, I do some chording. I don't use a capo.

One of the difficult things is space related. There just isn't room for mr to have my own music stand. I look on to the guitar player's stand. If the key is one that he plays with a capo, he whites out the chords and puts in those he is substituting. That means that I have to chord by ear or play a melody line.

it is making me better at improvising.

[Jasper]

Thanks for all the good advice...I counted all the chords in one of the medleys that we play...a total of twelve different chords ranging from A to G with minor and major 7ths along with straight majors and minors. It starts with "Surely the Presence" and goes on to a couple of other songs always coming back to "Surely the Presence" as the refrain. As I don't have a pickup built into my mando, I don't plug in so anything subtle that I might try to play is never heard over the din of the keyboard, bass, and voices, all of which are amplified. That leaves me with strumming or tremolo on this one just to be heard. Unfortunately, the tremolo becomes monotonous IMO after about two versers. I reckon I will continue to persevere and hope that practice will at least keep me from getting too far behind. Thanks again for the encouraging words.

[steve in tampa]

Don't focus on trying to be heard over oll the others, just try to get them to hear you. They will recognize what you are adding, if they have any level of musicianship, and should get out of the way on the parts where you are accenting the piece.
It is supposed to be a group effort, not a tug of war.