Flatiron F Models

[A9cp]

Are there any better years to acquire a Flatiron F model ?Does the built location have any bearing ie.. Montana vs Nashville buit ?

If so which one ?

Thanks

[straight-a]

I would just buy the one that plays and sounds the best. Haven't heard of any of them falling apart, structurally speaking.

[jjboone101]

Will be hotly debated. I owned a Nashville-built Flatiron that was mighty sweet.

[Keith Erickson]

Let's take up a collection and share it among ourselves#http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I've read a couple threads on this and it seems like montana's generally have a slightly better reputation. But those with nashvilles swear they're as good or better. I have a montana performer A that has a totally sweet tone. #I love it for what it is. Pricing is fairly similar between the two, I think.

I hear there are actually a couple Nebraska models, made while the factory was en route to Nashville. #They're reputed to somewhat corny though.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Greenmando]

I have a Montana model and love it. It has a better feel to it than my new F9.
Apples and oranges thou. The F9 needs more play time and the Flatiron F5 is built differently.

Play a lot of them and choose the one you can not put down!

[fatt-dad]

I'm not sure that this issue will be resolved with a simple answer and I've not played a Nashville Flatiron, but the conventional dove-tail joint that Gibson used when they moved production to Nashville may be more "authentic" construction for a mandolin. This seems to be one factor that distinguishes the two mandolins. I understand that Flatiron mandolins made in Bozeman used a bolted neck joint - but better authorities can weigh in.

fatt-dad

[pickinNgrinnin]

Yes, the Montana Flatirons have a Mortise and Tenon neck joint with a bolt for added measure. Nashville Flatirons have a traditional dovetail neck joint. Which is better? Only your ears can say. Montana Flatiron Performers and Festivals have an integrated neck which is actually part of the Mandolin's top. It was a cost savings measure. I prefer the look of the elevated neck as you see on the Nashville Flatirons and the Montana F5 and F5 Artist & Master. Nashville Flatirons are carved to Loar specs which I believe to be a good model http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

It's kind of like the Collings-Martin debate. I agree with FD -it's not resolvable and has no clear outcome. Buy the one you like.

[mandomadman]

Hey pickinNgrinnin, I have a 96 F-5 signature model. The neck joint looks like traditional dove tail construction,are you sure that it is'nt? If it's not I can't see how any money was saved on my model. My mando sounds incredible. I found and played two Nashville made F-5 Festivals for sale in stores in my bluegrass deprived state of CT and I felt they were inferior in sound. The edges of the frets were not even dressed. I cut my finger in the music store trying one out ! Also where can I find history on flatiron. thanks Ron

[legendarytones]

I played a Flatiron a couple of years ago that had the neck joined all the way to the top. This particular mandolin was very poor in quality of sound and volume. Have any of you experienced the same thing? I was considering buying this mandolin, but after keeping it for a couple of weeks and trying differant action heights trying to get it to sound better, I gave up on it and give it back to the owner. Is there anything that can be done to these particular types of Flatiron's to make them better? I was just wandering, in case I ever run into one again. It was a nice looking mandolin, but there was just nothing there as far as sound.

[A9cp]

Thank you for the response to this thread.

I do appreciate it


A9cp

[GMatt]

Does Flatiron have a website? I can't seem to find anything about them.

[jim_n_virginia]

Are there any better years to acquire a Flatiron F model ?Does the built location have any bearing ie.. Montana vs Nashville buit ?

If so which one ?

Thanks
Gibson used to have a small section devoted to Flatiron (which they bought out in case you don't know) on their website and I was going to link to it but it seems to be gone.

The last two mandolins I have owned were Flatirons. Both were from Bozeman and 1995. The one I have now is a Performer Series with the integrated neck and I love this mandolin.

My mandolin has held it's own against many a high dollar mandolin. The ONLY mandolin I would trade up for at this point would be a Gibson Fern, Master Model or Distressed Model (yeah I like them too!) and seeing that I don't anticipate running into that kind of cash soon, my Flatiron is a keeper.

As far as which one is better ... Bozeman, Belgrade or Nashvile? There are arguments FOR and AGAINST each one...I say who cares! Play them all and buy the one that speaks out to you!

[pickinNgrinnin]

mandomadman-

A 96 F5 Signature has an elevated fretboard. If you could see a picture of the Festival or Performer, you would be able to see the integrated neck. It's carved into the top of the Mandolin. I believe all the Flatiron carved top models that came out of Montana have a mortise and tenon neck joint. Take a peek inside the F hole and look up toward the neck block. You should be able to see a small bolt there. The F5 has tone bar bracing which sets it apart from the other X braced Montana Flatirons. There was a good Flatiron website but I tried it tonight and it's not working. Wonder if Gibson took it down?

[mandomadman]

P & G , thanks for that info. I do see the bolt. I was aware of the differences in models and that the festys and perfs had a different neck joint,just didn't realize mine was the same joint as those, but with the pieces to make it look traditional. Did I get that right? I've also been advised to hold onto this mando as Gibson is no longer making them and they stand a good chance of being a real collectable. Thanks

[Big Joe]

Yes. The Montana Flatiron used a mortise and tenon joint with a bolt. They are fine mandolins but beware because the neck joint does move and need to be reset after time. The particular joint is not as strong as a dovetail and one of the reasons the joint was changed when the production was moved to Nashville. The same for the Montana era Gibsons. They are good playing sounding mandolins, but not as structurally sound as those with the dovetail. You can argue which sounds better as they are both good. The Nasville built are just structurally better.

[A9cp]

Thanks Bigjoe, that's some of the information I was after, the neck connection.

Well I went Flatiron Data surfing, this is what I found.

Steve and Paul Carlson were the original owners of Flatiron; The Flatiron Company was founded in Bozeman, Montana in 1977 who were known as to revive the flat top concept...with the Cadet Model...styled after the early 1900s Army and Navy mandolin...simple and affordable in design

The first Flatiron's were constructed in Belgrade MT before the move to Bozeman Mt.

" Music Trades; 2/1/2005 . In 1987 Gibson was sufficiently impressed with the storied Flatiron Mandolin Company to purchase the shop and hire its staff. Ten years later economics dictated that the Bozeman, Montana, operation be consolidated with Gibson's banjo and Dobro divisions in Nashville. Virtually all of Flatiron's employees declined the relocation. Husband-and-wife team Bruce and Mary Weber instead founded their own company, Sound To Earth, to carry on the tradition of fine luthery that had earned Flatiron the respect of mandolinists worldwide. "

Gibson purchased the Flatiron Company, of Bozeman, in 1987....the Gibson plant, of Bozeman, was constructed in 1989...which handled all of the acoustic instruments under the Gibson name.... The production was moved to Nashville in 1996. From May of 1987 to December of 1996, all of the Flatiron luthiers and most of the Flatiron support personnel worked for Gibson building Gibson and Flatiron mandolins. Gibson kept the Flatiron name for upwards to 2002...

Serial numbers...Gibson did make the Cadet too...when acoustic production began, for Gibson in Bozeman, "the series' numbers were reorganized" (Gurney Brown "Blue Book of Acoustic Guitars")...

"Bozeman built instruments began using 001-299 designations and, in 1990, Nashville instruments began using 300-999 designations."

Per a email from Charlie at Gibson to another Flatiron Festival owner All Gibson mandolins made in Nashville, including the Flatirons, are graduated to the 1923 Gibson Loar specifications. Another significant difference between the Montana Flatirons and the Nashville Flatirons is that the Nashville Flatirons have traditional dove tail neck joints whereas the Montana versions - both pre and post Gibson, had bolt on
necks.


"MandoZine article - Charlie Derrington
Q - Why did Gibson stop making Flatiron mandolins? They were of good quality and reasonably priced. Will Flatirons be brought back?

A - Basically it was an issue of self-competition. The Flatirons (since the re-tool of 97/98/99) were basically the same mandolins as the Gibsons. It made no sense to continue to offer two different models that were basically identical in spec., at different prices. We therefore decided to introduce the F-9 and A-9 models at a lower price-point than the Flatirons, which allowed a more affordable mandolin (carved to Loar specs.) to be offered. I don't think anyone would have been happy to see us change the Flatirons to only be offered in a lower price point. In other words, the other option would have been for us to make only F-9 Flatirons instead of Festivals (which were basically F-5Gs).

Some may argue the original Montana Flatirons were mainly X-braced, but again I have to state the tooling change to accommodate this would have been prohibitive on a production basis. That said, however, one can custom order any mandolin we build with the X option. Building one or two instruments with non-standard specifications is a lot different than tooling up an entire line with those spec. changes in mind."

So the way it looks, and from what the data is saying if you want a Montana built Flatiron those serial numbers will be 001-299. A Nashville built Flatiron look for serial #'s between 300-999 .

On the coding you have:
YY as the production year
DDD as the day of the year
ppp as the plant designation and/or rank of instrument

The standard numbers for the 70s-90s as follows:
YDDDYPPP

95111337 = 1993 (however the 511 would exceed the days of the year) (337 would mean the 337th instrument in consecutive order for this particular instrument)....

Sorry for the length of this.
BigJoe or Charlie ?? comments towards accuracy of the above and serial numbers.

[A9cp]

There is an error in my serial numbers. Sorry
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information you have applies to Gibson acoustic guitars (made in Bozeman) and Gibson electrics made in Nashville.

Flatiron mandolins were made in Belgrade (near Bozeman) and they used this numbering system:

- first two digits were the year

- next two were the month of production

- next two were the day of production

- the last one or two digits were number produced/approved in that batch



For example: 96011419 would be January 14th, 1996, 19th piece produced



Gibson mandolins used a similar configuration, but with the first digit moved to the last position, so that the same instrument under the Gibson brand would have this number:

60114199



When mandolin production was moved to Nashville in 1998, the Gibson mandolin numbering system was used for Flatirons, too.



Walter Carter

Gibson Historian

[mandomadman]

Now I'm totaly confused???
My Flatiron F-5 (tone bars,flat board) has a label signed by Bruce Weber and reads Made in Bozeman Montana USA. serial# 9204636.(7 #s )

I have been under the impression that it is a 1996 made Feb.4th, 36th one labeled that day. And that #s 1&5 = year, #s 2-4 = month and day, last 2#s are the amount labeled that day. But that can't be right as you need 4 digits to state month and day.

The latest thread states My mando #9204636, is a 1992 made April 63rd, 6th one labeled that day. Last I checked there are only 30 days in april.

Does anyone,anybody, human or alien in the universe really understand how the serial numbers work for Flatiron?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Keith Erickson]

This is about the one that got away:

About a month ago, I went to a Benny's Pawn shop in West El Paso. I was inquiring about mandolins in general.

The Salesman told me, "Speaking of Mandolins, two hours ago, I had aquired a Flatiron F-5 Mandolin, about an hour ago, I sold it for about US$150 bucks. The guy saw it and bought it without even playing it." http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

My hope is that the F-5 went to a good home http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

There was a performer F in the classifieds yesterday that sold in about 2 minutes. (The post is gone now). Asking price was $1275 and it had just a few dings. Not as good as $150, but not a bad deal for an F model these days.

[Moose]

Just to stir the water up...; I recently bought a Flatiron "A" from the Cafe Classified - Let me say (1)- I'm very happy with it -(2) Good buying price! (3) the seller was honest & up-front with the 'deal" - Now..., here's my question : the headstock, of course, reads THE FLATIRON ; the label inside reads..."GIBSON - MASTER MODEL - pat. 1902-...", Nashville, Tenn....(?).."etc. - NOW!... the "hand-written" info on the label reads : Performer "A" ; serial #900528XX(I don't have the mando in front of me - I'm at work(!?##) - My question(s)= yr.'90?.. ; May 28th!?? - XX= batch!??. Made in Montana? yes/no?... Incidently, it is not "signed" by anyone(!?#) - Thanks in advance for the help from you-all - AND no , the mando is NOT for sale at the present time(it is, however, "asleep" - I'm work'in on it!## - My HORNER '1990,"A" will literally "blow-it-away"). Moose-the-new-mando-owner! - Again, thanks guys(gals). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandomadman]

Moose I can't answer your ? until someone answers mine a few threads back too.If it has a Nashville label I have to believe that thats where it was made or finished within the last 10 years.

[Moose]

Ditto!! - We'll get it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[pickinNgrinnin]

mandomadman-

Yours was made in 92.

Moose-

Yours being of the Nashville orgin, was made in 199_ and whatever the last number in the sequence is.

[Moose]

Thanks much. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mandomadman]

Thanks P&G but how do you read the rest of my #? It's 7 digits.

[Tom C]

And my '95 was made in Belgrade. Something is backwards.

[A9cp]

Somehow when these things went to Gibson, the SN became Gibson numbers."When mandolin production was moved to Nashville in 1998, the Gibson mandolin numbering system was used for Flatirons, too." Now what are those numbers ranging from. Got to clue, can't find out. Sent a emal to Gibson, no response.
I think I am going to stick with guitars to many darn secrets with mandos, darn near CIA stuff or the x-files. At least I know where my Martins and Collings guitars were made and what year.

Ah. frustration is setting in. I need to to go pick a while.

[El Rey del Mando]

Mandomadman,Your flatty was made in april of 1992 and was the 637th one made to that date. How do you like that,connecticut to the rescue.Flatiron serial numbers do not reflect the exact day,just,year,month and the last digits were the production numbers.

John

[mandomadman]

Thanks John ! see ya at the strawberry park festival in two weeks ! Ron

[Moose]

Thanks John! - That's kinda' what I thought - 'least I know mine's a 199_ - (900528XX)!? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bsimmers]

I have a '91 Flatiron F-5, signed by Bruce Weber, Bozeman, Montana. It is super.

[mrt10x]

[Yes. #The Montana Flatiron used a mortise and tenon joint with a bolt. #They are fine mandolins but beware because the neck joint does move and need to be reset after time. #The particular joint is not as strong as a dovetail and one of the reasons the joint was changed when the production was moved to Nashville. #The same for the Montana era Gibsons. #They are good playing sounding mandolins, but not as structurally sound as those with the dovetail. #You can argue which sounds better as they are both good. #The Nasville built are just structurally better. ]

A properly built mortise and tennon joint is as strong, or stronger than a simple dovetail. #Some may take issue with bolt that is present in a mortise and tenon joint but it is really just a secondary support. #Using modern CNC machining putting a dovetail joint in instead of a mortise and tenon joing would be a fairly simple process, so the "saving money" argument doesnt hold water either. #Weber had/has the opportunity to use a dovetail or the M&T joint and has decided that M&T provides better support and longevity. #I have attached Vern Brekkes description from the Weber website below.

This topic seems to come up periodically and we hope that it will be helpful to add some additional information, about our instruments, to the discussion. #In general, there have been three types of neck joints used for instrument construction: the dovetail, the mortise and tenon and the bolt-on. #The reinforced mortise and tenon neck joint that we use has not really been discussed but is often, incorrectly, associated with bolt-on necks or other types of mortise and tenon joints. # #

The dovetail and the mortise and tenon are fitted and glued joints when used on mandolins. #They maximize surface contact between the neck and the body of the instrument and they are very stable joints, when done well. #After the glue dries, they are not adjustable or easily replaced. #True bolt-on necks are very different. #They are not designed to be glued. #A bolt-on neck may be removed or replaced by simply taking out the bolts and lifting the neck off. #

When we started Sound To Earth, Ltd. we were not locked into any specific tradition. #We could choose or invent whatever design elements we felt were best for our instruments. #Most of us have worked with other neck joints in the past (I was responsible for adjusting the equipment that cut guitar dovetails at a previous job) and we prefer the structural strength and simplicity of the reinforced mortise and tenon joint that we designed and use. #Our neck joint gives our instruments a tight, strong, and stable fit at the heel and body with very consistent neck angles on all three relevant planes.

The tenon is a simple rectangle the height of our ribs and extension block (1 3/4 inches tall), nearly an inch long and a 1/2 inch thick. The matching mortise is also a simple rectangle. #It has very large wood-to-wood contact areas and we get a strong glued joint, on six matching surfaces (four sides of the tendon and two wings that transition the neck to the body), that has its greatest structural strength perpendicular to the force of the strings. The large height and length of the tenon also gives the joint good resistance to lateral and twisting forces. The screws, that we use, go through the head block and into barrel nut inserts in the tenon. The style of insert and the way that they are placed is unique to our “WEBER” instruments. #They clamp the neck against the body until the glue dries and give mechanical support to the joint after the glue has set. Since two of the three relevant neck angles are determined by two vertical cuts, perpendicular to the body and parallel to the center-line of the instrument, we really only have to focus our adjustments on the primary neck angle. #We use two screws so that we can do fairly minute adjustments to that neck angle before the glue dries. All of the design parameters of our mandolin body are dependent on these neck angles. #The top graduations; brace dimensions; and bridge height are optimized to our specific angle. #If that angle varies from our intended specifications the tonal qualities of our instruments will be changed and we don’t like that. #The mortise and tendon joint is ideal for keeping these angles consistent, from instrument to instrument, and that consistency is a primary reason that we use this style of joint. #We also like the very tight fit that we get from the heel of the neck to the body of the instrument.

We do not believe that the mass or the weight of the screws will have any affect on the tone or balance of our instruments. The screws and inserts weigh less than 1/2 ounce. #Our necks (peghead, veneer, tuners and fret board) can vary in weight as much as 3/4 of an ounce - with a typical weight being 16 ounces. Wood is wood and the weight and density of it changes from piece to piece. #With the average weight of our mandolins being 32 ounces, the screws represent an imperceptible fraction of the weight of the instrument. #They are also located very near the actual center of balance of the instrument so their effect on the instruments balance is even further reduced. #The shape of the neck and peghead; the type of tuners, and the style of tailpiece will have a noticeable effect on the balance and weight of the instrument. Our screws will not. #

We feel that our reinforced mortise and tenon joint has many inherent advantages for our instruments and our customers and that it should not be misunderstood or confused with other neck joints.

[Moose]

Agree or disagree!!?? - But, I thank you for taking the time to post - and explain in depth - the implications and/or justifications of a particular method of mando building. Moose http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[stevem]

Yes, a very helpful explanation. Any pictures out there of what the neck joint looks like pre-gluing? I'm having a little trouble visualizing it.

[mandomadman]

Were Flatiron/Gibson mandolins labeled "made in Bozeman MT", really made in Belgrade MT http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??

[mrt10x]

http://www.soundtoearth.com/updates_mortiseandtenon.jpg

see if this works I took it from Weber's website so they may slap me with copyright.

[Moose]

A picture - sometimes - says(or makes needless) a thousand words. Thanks for posting. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jim simpson]

That joint actually looks pretty impressive.

[Bruce Weber]

In regards to Joe’s opinions about dovetail versus mortise and tenon neck joints. I have used the mortise and tenon for over twenty years in the construction of Gibsons, Flatirons and now my own Webers accounting for thousands of mandolin family instruments being played worldwide.

We have never had to do a neck reset resulting from a mortise and tenon joint failure.

For example: a couple of years ago we rebuilt a Gibson F5L and A5L that were caught in a flood. The finish was flaking and most glue seams were gone or on the way out. The neck joints on both mandos (mortise and tenon) were solid showing no signs of movement after sitting in wet cases for weeks during the flood, the time it took to be shipped to me and the drying out/wringing out process. We used the neck joints as a good place to start the repair process, going in both directions from there.

I find Joe’s blanket statement that all mortise and tenon joints are in some way inferior and will have to be reset in time as at least misinformed, and at most blatant shameless propaganda.

If you desire any further information on this topic please reference our website http://www.soundtoearth.com

[JimW]

Ok, I find that Mr. Brekke is referring or comparing his mortise and tenon neck joints to "simple" dovetail joints and says they are just as strong in the quote from above and on the Weber website. Ok, I'll take his word on that, but how do they compare to a "compound" dovetail neck joint which I believe Gibson and most others that are doing dovetail joints use today. It's my understanding that a well fitted, compound dovetail joint can sustain the pressure and tension of the mandolin strings WITHOUT glue and the joint not be compromised.

Jim Watts

[pickinNgrinnin]

Good to see you posting here Bruce. This is not the first time Big Joe has made such comments about the Dovetail vs Mortise & Tenon joint. My guess is that both joints have their distinct advantages. Nice to hear a view from the other side of the table. Keep up the great work out there in Montana! Stop by here and visit from time to time!

[mrt10x]

Mr Watts,

the reference to the "simple" dovetail are my words not Mr Brekkes. If you take a look, the first paragraph was my input, a novice at best, and the rest was cut and paste from the Weber website. #Funny thing is that I had the nearly the same words as Bruce in my original post, I think is said "self serving and misinformed" but I took them out. #People can argue all day long about what sound they prefer out of a mandolin, but I am willing to bet that the Webers being built today will be handed down for generations without problems.

[Hal Loflin]

Do any of the Nashville Flatirons have Bruce Weber's signature on the label? I was under the impression that he was retained by Gibson when Flatiron was purchased and that he helped them with the move to Nashville. Also, from a collector's standpoint, which Flatirons are becoming the most valuable?

THanks

[fatt-dad]

which Flatirons are becoming the most valuable?
I would bet the pre-Gibson Flatirons will be more "collectable" along with those signed by Carlson. Whether they are "better" or not is unclear - likely both great mandolins.

fatt really-an-amature dad

[neal]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Moose]

Whatever the "opinions" on this thread.... - Thank you, Mr. Weber..., for taking the time to post! - Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[hitch]

Not to vary from the "intense subject matter" , I am going to look at a 1991 festival A Flatiron. Any info opinions out there?

[stevem]

I have a '96 Performer A signed by Bruce Weber. I absolutely love it. Sweet, balanced, rich and powerful tone across the strings. Finish is a little thick, but the sound is still very yummy.

[jom]

I have a 91 (Gibson) A5L that was signed by Steve Carlson. I am very happy with the tone. Luckily I got to play it before I bought it, and I was convinced within 5 minutes. If you can, go try 'er out.

[Jefferson]

Just a note on this discussion regarding Flatiron mandolins and neck attachment. I am a new user on this mandolin site, but not a new mandolin player or guitar player. The discussion regarding the merits of bolt-on necks and dovetail necks puts me in a time warp back about 10 years.

In the guitar world, particularly the high end flatpick and fingerpick world the relative merits of both methods is an old hat issue. Long ago Bob Taylor, Bill Collings, Dana Bourgeois, James Goodall, and many, many others have shown that bolt-on mortise and tenon attachments are equally as good as hand-fit dovetails if not better. Check out the comments by Frank Ford on his site attached to Gryphon Guitars.

How someone could objetively say that a dovetail is inherently stronger is beyond me. When I hear this I immediately look for special pleading. When this issue comes up on the guitar websites, it is usually attended with a sigh "Oh no not this again!"

I have guitars with both bolt-on necks and dovetails. I prefer bolt-on technology for reasons of neck set and solidity of attachment. That's about as much as one can objectively say.

[fatt-dad]

Welcome Jefferson! And, thanks for the voice of reason. I have never "listened" through this discussion before and found it interesting. I guess for me there is the "purist" component of the discussion (not that I'm a purist) and there is the performance side of the question. There are times during these-types of banter that I consider writing a book, "Zen and the Art of Mandolin Making" -ha.

fatt I-ain't-no-role-model dad

[Ken Berner]

Hey jom, A buddy of mine found a'95 A5-L a few years back and it really is a nice mandolin. I prefer it with medium strings, as it has a more full sound, however his ears like the lights better. Still, a very fine instrument, indeed! You have a prize.

[J.Albert]

I thought I'd post this query here, instead of starting a new topic.

I have a Gibson/Nashville/Flatiron Festival F model (Dec. 2000) and am very happy with it. I'm considering picking up a Montana-built Flatiron Artist model from the mid-90s (this one is X-braced and has a flat fingerboard).

I find the Flatiron neck (v-shaped, flat, modestly narrow at the nut, and mid-small sized frets) to work perfectly for me - even a bit better than a "traditional" Gibson neck (i.e, v-shaped but tiny frets) or more "modern" neck (wider with large frets, like the Bush and most Webers). So the issue of "playability" of the Artist vis-a-vis the Festival F isn't an issue at all.

I'm wondering about tone, though. The Nashville Festival F has tone bars, and the Montana-built Artist is X-braced. I've never had the opportunity to try an X-braced mandolin.

I should say the sound of my Festival F is wonderful: thunky, a bit loud, not as refined as my F-5g but still very very pleasing, with great sustain, too. A very "fundamental" mandolin.

How would an X-braced Artist model differ? Would the sustain still be there?

Other instruments I'm considering are a Gibson Fern or Goldrush...

Thanks for any comments,
- John