mandolin tab or notation ?

[mikej]

Is mandolin usually played by tab or notation ?
my wife has inherited a very nice condition 1928 Gibson A mandolin and wants to learn and play by notation rather than tab. I thought tab was the way to go, but what do i know
thanks
mike

[Pete Braccio]

Hi Mike,

Tab is easier but notation will give you more options. go on over to Mandozine (http://www.mandozine.com/) and take a look at the practice files. They have a bunch of songs written out in tab and standard notation.

Pete

[Hondo]

Tab and notation are tools. Why limit oneself to just one?

Notation opens up a world of possibilities. I just stumbled on a book of Turkish music. I can't read Turkish, but can read, though not well, notation. So I'll at least try out some of the Turkish tunes, maybe add a few to my repertoire. But I wouldn't be able to if I depended solely upon tab.

Also, if you don't know the tune, tab doesn't offer much to tell you how it's supposed to sound. Notation tells you (well, it tells some people. It offers me clues, and I eventuall get there). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[merv]

If she can read notation somuch the better tabs are confusing to me . Notation overall gives me a better feel for a new song.

[Steven]

Yes my vote is for notation,but having both is really the best.I try to buy instuctional material that has both notation and tab underneath,I really dislike tab alone as everyone that writes it seems to do it differently,its way confusing at times. If you go to Mandozine and download the Tab Edit File you will have both right there on the screen or to print out,then go into All Tabs website and select any tune you want and get to listen to them as you learn,you can even slow the tunes down or repeat the parts you are having trouble with.If I had all the help there is out there right now but years ago when I was young I'd be a real fiddel player now.

[hitch]

If I could deviate from the subject-but speaking of tab.
I thought I could work this question in w/out starting new topic. What is the tab for a "G run " in key of G? I don't enen know if that question was properly asked. Iam working on a break for Angel Band. It would work well there.

[jmcgann]

Tab Vs. Standard (http://www.johnmcgann.com/tab.html)

[otterly2k]

I think standard music notation generally does a better job of providing rhythmic information (assuming you know how to read it). And is more versatile (as noted above). If she already knows how to read music, I think it might be worth building on that skill. If not (and she's starting from square 1), she could take a look at each and decide what makes sense to her. There's also the option of learning by ear... or any combination.
best of luck to her!

[John Flynn]

I say neither. A mandolin is a musical instrument. Music is sound, not print. Sheet music and tab are representations of music, but they are not music. Learn to play by ear, because that is what it's all about. I say this being someone who reads both notation and tab and has been doing so for much longer than I have played by ear, but someone who is convert. I still use notation and tab as a crutch, but I accept it as nothing more than that. BTW, for some ironic reason, I have gotten much better at playing by notation since I have been learning primarily by ear. It's like before I would see a note and think, "Where is that note on the fretboard?" It would be purely eye-hand coordination, no sound involved. Now I see a note and think, "What should that sound like?" And my finger just goes there. It's definitely not perfect yet, I am still going through the transition, but I like it.

[250sc]

There are some references to Tab not providing rhythmic information. Why?

It seems to me that you can document whole, quarter, eighth etc. notes and rests. You can tie them together and write them as dotted notes. What am I missing?

To me it seems that Tab is the same as musical notation except it tells you to play the notes in a particular place on the fingerboard. (Again, I might me missing something) The fact that there is lots of material that isn't written in tab and musical notation is universal (not just written for a particular instrument and tuning) is its advantage.

There are references to people learning songs from tab as being the cause of people not being able to improvise in jams but they would have the same problem if they learned the songs or solos from notation without applying what they learned to their own bag of tricks that they can use over different songs in different keys.

Personally, I write in tab to compensate for my faulty memory and chose tab because it was quick and easy.

[Tim]

The problem with saying what tab can and can't do is that there are not anything close to the standards that exist for notation. #Yes you can indicate more on tab than where to put your finger but if you start adding information on eighth notes, rhythm, etc. you are going to very likely start writing standard notation symbols over tab.

[otterly2k]

Great article, John ... thanks for the link.

Mando Johnny, you make a good case for ear training, and I agree with the point you make that ANY form of notation is (at best) and approximate representation of the actual sounds.

However, I do think there are advantages to having forms of notation, and using them as learning tools. #Tab and standard notation each have particular strengths and limitations. #In standard notation, you don't get any information about finger position... it wasn't designed for that... so the different options of playing particular notes on the fretboard aren't apparent from standard notation. #On the other hand, you get a better understanding of the relationships between notes and chords if you know what you're looking at in standard notation. #

Being able to jot something down or share a piece of music via a written document is handy too...sure, it would be nice if our memories were perfect and everyone could learn a tune accurately if we just hummed a few bars, but people have different learning styles. #Yes, we can develop our ears and memories... but why not also make use of various written systems?

One of my constant frustrations and challenges is figuring out how to share the music in my head/imagination. #When it involves complicated arrangements and many different voice/parts (as it usually does), I have to find a way to communicate it to others in ways that THEY understand...either that or spend all my time alone with a multi-track recorder... sometimes this is tempting as it would be easier, but a MUCH less rich experience than making music with others, which in my book is one of the most amazing things one can do in the world. #My musical imagination is much quicker than my ability to notate in any system... it slows me down, but is necessary, as I've found that it is rare to find other musicians whose ears and minds work the way mine does. Some people really need the visual info.

just my 4c
KE

[twaaang]

I think some of the rap against tablature is from people who haven't seen much of it. Much of what is available, such as here on the Cafe, is somewhat on the stark side as far as expressiveness is concerned, which I assume comes from limitations in creating a common format for electronic sending and receiving, to allow text and data to interact, etc. (PLEASE don't anyone take offense over what, I know, is the product of your hard work, generosity, and better internet savvy than I have.) If you buy printed tab, or subscribe to magazines that use it, you'll find a lot more for helpful directions, as well as layouts and fonts that make things easier to read. I have some tabbing software in which I lay out things that I transcribe off CDs, "translate" from regular notation, or re-set from other downloaded tab just to suit my preferences in what makes things easier to read.

Tim, you seem to make a greater distinction between tab and standard notation than I ever have been aware of. From the very first, I've considered tab to include a lot of the notation refinements you seem to reserve for standard notation. (I'm realizing the either/or nature of the thread question sort of suggests there's no overlap.)

Someone above suggested regular notation was better for "hearing" the music. That's a skill that comes with practice for either format, and I assure you I can sight-read an unfamiliar tablature and have a pretty good idea what it the music sounds like. -- Paul

[Hondo]

But isn't tab instrument-specific? Banjo tab isn't going to do me much good, but standard notation will get me there (eventually).

Geeze, I don't want to sound like a purist. I never would have started on the mando without it. I've just found the tab that I'm familiar with to be rather limited, but it sounds like there's some decent stuff out there.

[Tim]

Tim, you seem to make a greater distinction between tab and standard notation than I ever have been aware of. #From the very first, I've considered tab to include a lot of the notation refinements you seem to reserve for standard notation. #(I'm realizing the either/or nature of the thread question sort of suggests there's no overlap.)
In an effort to be concise I was not clear. #If you look at samples of tab you'll see everything from bare bones - just fret numbers on a string layout grid - to very elaborate with many of the symbols from standard notation. #The common subset is the finger-string-fret indicator. #The more you add those additional items, the more you get away from the biggest claimed advantage of tab - that you don't have to "read music" to play. #You have to learn so many symbols that you've already learned a good portion of how to read music. #

My point wasn't to make a definitive statement about what tab is but to point out that there are so many really different levels of detail in what is called tab. #It is difficult to say "tab can't do this..." but usually when you show how to do these other things via tab you've probably used a lot of standard notation. #The more of these you use the less "friendly" it is.

[250sc]

Hondo,

Yes, it is instrument specific.

Tim,
Your right, I use symbols borrowed from standard notation but that's what I'm used to seeing in the tabs that I see on web site and magazines.

To get back to the original message, use whatever you can to develop into the musician you want to be. Learn from listening to others play and to what they have to say about playing. Learning to read tab and notation will only make you a better musican by exposing you to things that you can't hear someone else play. (I've learned lots of songs that I've never heard played by others.)

There are lots of ways to learn and no one method will necessarally work for everyone. Just be open and soak it up.

Interesting thread. See y'all.

[twaaang]

Hurray, I've been quoted in the Cafe! Beers for all!

Tim, thanks for your additional comments. In my dim past I read standard notation first; the first examples of tab I ever saw were much more elaborate than the bare-bones examples that I think we both recognize as the other end of this spectrum (rendered even barer by electronic limitations which force compromises even in how the staff looks). So on reflection I've never been a "pure tab" user in the sense some readers would assume, even though I just thought I was.

Hondo, yes, tab is instrument-specific and also tuning-specific. I do read banjo tab in standard gDGBD, but other tunings lose me (which is too bad because some of the altered tunings lend themselves to tunes that are achingly pretty . . . yes, I AM still talking about the banjo); and I'm "getting there" in standard mando GDAE; and the preponderance of fiddle tunes in standard notation has forced me to dust off my old skills in that area.

Different notation approaches, each useful in different contexts, and I agree that sometimes just playing by ear will get you a long ways (and surprise you with things you didn't know you knew!). Thanks, all. -- Paul