View Full Version : pre amp advice
scotsman
Apr-30-2005, 12:44am
Can anyone help!! I have bought a Rigel A plus and need to use it through a PA. I play with a guitarist and need to find a pre amp solution,any one point me in the right direction?
JP
JP, I use a Fishman ProEQ II and it serves me well, However, if you have a larger budget (and actually I got a HUGE break on mine, a kid at GC said they were discountinuing this model and sold it to me for $30...wonder if he's still there?) there are other options out there and I'm sure other folks will chime in. I like the Fishman becuase it has four EQ points...low, mid, high and presence...makes it easier to dail it in than my friend's Fishman which only has two...high and low. When I play with my rock band, I don't use a pre-amp at all. I go straight through my Roland AC-60 and into the board and my Freshwater mando sounds GREAT (IMHO). So, if you're playing loud you may want to look at an amp...but if it's just a duo go with the preamp...Hope this helps a little bit
JGWoods
Apr-30-2005, 12:25pm
I tried a Fishman Platinum with my Rigel G110, I was not happy with it. I have heard better things about L.R. Baggs since then, but not tried them.
jgwoods
John Flynn
Apr-30-2005, 6:50pm
I had an LR Baggs Para DI and loved it. It had great tone and was very reasonably priced. I sold it and got a Boss AD-5, which is more expensive and has more features. At the time I thought that the way to go, but IMHO, the AD-5 does not beat the Baggs on sound. If you get the Baggs, though, get an external power supply. the one thing I disliked about it was that it ATE batteries.
mandroid
Apr-30-2005, 9:30pm
I would suggest that that PA mixer channels preamp would give you the Gain, and a multiband EQ would be what you may like to finetune the tone, Insert jack [one per mixer channel, perhaps?]is one way to route the signal,[thats its function] putting the output of the instrument into the EQ and the output of the EQ to the board, is the other way to route your signal.
using a DI box would put[1/4"jacks] signal into Microphone XLR mixers input, which has more preamplification, since mics are typically lower output
hotclub
Apr-30-2005, 9:34pm
I like the Baggs too. Also, if you have phantom power, it will get its power there, you don't need batteries.
Of course, if you're looking to spend some serious cash and in exchange get a truly serious preamp, you could always check out the stuff made by pendulum audio http://www.pendulumaudio.com/SPS-1.html . This company builds really great, bullet-proof rack mount preamps with four bands of parametric EQ and a ton of other great fetaures. I've had mine for years now ... never a problem with it, just total control in shaping my sound exactly the way I want it.
No financial interest here - just a very loyal, very happy customer. Hope this helps!
scotsman
May-01-2005, 10:07am
Thanks everyone,
Plenty for me to consider,I think I need to try and source a few and see if I can try things out.
JP
Rob Anderson
May-01-2005, 10:27pm
Just thaught I'd give a mention to the Rane AP-13, it's a dual channel, single rack space unit that can be had used for around $250. It gives you two 5 band graphics eq's, effects loop, tuner out, headphone out, main out,ect... Lots of bang for the buck if you can find a used one.
I always mention this when someone asks about preamps because it seems to be a largely overlooked or not well known unit. If you want to get loud a preamp is critical.
Rob Anderson-Dunamis Designs
Rob is right! That Rane pre-amp seems like it offers pretty good bang for the buck. I played for a while in band with a guitar player who used one and swore by it. Seemed pretty solid and while I wouldn't trade my Pendulum Audio Pre for it, it does seem like something you might want to check out! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
R_Parent
May-09-2005, 12:09pm
My vote would be for a Para-DI for a stomp-box style unit. FWIW: I had a Rane AP13 and it was a very nice unit if a rack mount is what you are after.
I'm using a Presonus Tube Pre, it has Phantom power and a tube to soften up the tone. For under a hundred bucks I think it is great.
Dave
scotsman
May-10-2005, 3:56pm
hi DAVE
can you tell me more about the Presonus can you shape the sound,ie do you get much variation in tone??
It doesnt appear to have much tone control,do you find that a problem??
Jean P
I use a SansAmp acoustic DI with my Rigel A+deluxe. I love it. Plenty of control with EQ etc to dial out pick click and tune the sound.
Rob
dr.jazz
May-11-2005, 8:31am
Baggs Para-DI gets my vote for flexibility and control. The EQ is well thought out, giving you some genuine adjustment where you need it. It's cheap too.
the pre-sonus valve pre-amp requires AC to power the valve, and has no EQ but it does have great sound. It's other problem is that it doesn't have the right input impedance for piezo style pick-ups. However, Presonus does make a cool item called the Acousti-Q which works well, has terrific sound, reasonable EQ, and dual channels for Mic/PU mixing.
Klaus Wutscher
May-11-2005, 9:03am
Just checked the presonus accoustic-Q and found out that it does not have a XLR input which makes it unusable for my schertler- back to the start I guess
Both the Rane & the Pendulum mentioned earlier in this thread have XLR inputs. Both a rackmount and more costly than the presonus and some of others mentioned here but if you're serious about your sound and your budget allows, both are well worth checking out!
Hope this helps!
steve in tampa
May-11-2005, 6:12pm
A nice half rack size w. XLR input is a Joe Meek 3Q. Pre amp, compressor and 3 band EQ in one box w/ phantom power. I use it for my condensor mic, but it says in the manual that it can be used for instruments also. 200 bucks.
Morgan Monroe Guy
May-12-2005, 3:25pm
The Red Square active DI from Rolls is an excellant option, Or a Boss EQ pedal, both will give good pre amplification and EQ options.
I personally like and use the Red Square.
Mike
DannyB
May-13-2005, 6:31am
I have the preamp that is used in the trace-elliot TA100r amp. I have never used a better preamp for anything. It is 2 channel, has onboard effects and many other features that I used for my guitar, mando and fiddle at one point in time. Sorry to say I play un amplified these days and it just sits. I kept it just in case. Anyway it is a good preamp, just a little pricey. Around $500 when I bought it years ago.
steve in tampa
May-13-2005, 10:15am
Here's a couple of links to some interesting looking options:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BBEAM?trk=smx
http://www.atomicguitars.com/jd10/ap10page.html
http://www.d-tar.com/timber_line.shtml
http://www.carlmartin.com/
On the last 2 hit the products tab.
Looks to me like the RANE does NOT have XLR inputs. I too have a Scherlter pick-up and the matching pre-amp. Love the pick-up but the pre-amp does not have a lot of flexibility.
Anybody find a solution that's less then the $1500 (though worth it) Pendulum?
I would have sworn the Rane had an XLR in but you're right .... 1/4 inch input only.
However, it appears that the RANE works nicely with just about any brand of mini-condenser you want to throw at it. There is a a pdf doc on there site that even walks you through the process of replacing the XLR on the Countryman (and others) ... looks like about ten minutes with a wire cutter and some solder would do the trick. Here's a ton more info http://www.rane.com/ap13.html And here is a quote from one of their spec sheets ...
"Recommended Microphones
Almost any miniature dynamic or condenser mic may be
used with the AP 13. Several compatible miniature microphones
are made by AKG, Audio-Technica, Barcus Berry, Beyerdynamic,
Countryman, Crown, CT Audio, Donnell, ElectroVoice,
Fishman, Frap, Sennheiser, Seymour Duncan, Shure, Sony, and
Telex. Consult the RaneNote, “Microphone Options for the AP
13,” available from the Rane website.
Mic Wiring in General: The red wire is usually the hot wire
and should be connected to the tip or ring; the other wire and
shield tie together at the sleeve. Consult the mic maker or Rane
Tech Support for more specific information on wiring microphones
from other manufacturers.
My personal preference remains with Pendulum Audio, admittedly more expensive but I LOVE mine and it's never failed me yet. But the RANE does seem like a lower cost alternative that should work well ... if you don't mind altering your mic of choice a little ... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
By the way Perry ... you shouldn't be reading this thread anyway! That new Gilchrist of yours is loud enough without any additional amplification!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Rob Anderson
May-17-2005, 10:11pm
Hello,
Above post is correct, no XLR on the Rane, its input is a single 1/4" stereo (trs) jack. You just need to mod your cord.It does supply phantom power for condensors as well.
Just thought I'd give a metion to the Raven Labs stuff since nobody has. They make a couple different units that would work for you. I have no experience with them but they look great on paper. I believe one of the guys involved with SWR started Raven Labs. SWR made some great acoustic amps that became standard stage gear for many musicians over the years.
I choose the Rane over Raven and Pendulum solely because of cost. It's near impossible to find the later used, but AP-13's are regular E-Bay items.
Rob Anderson-Dunamis Designs
scotsman
May-28-2005, 6:13am
Thanks everyone
I have tracked down and bought an LR Baggs Para DI, it seems to be doing the business!!
Jean Pierre
My LR Baggs para acoustic Di arrived a couple of weeks back. It's great!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif The mando now sounds just like a mando just louder, rather than an electric mando sound.
All I need now is a decent acoustic amp and a decent pick up (I have a ###### stick on fishman transducer) I've been told the bridge pick ups are the best, Is this true???
Ted Eschliman
Jun-14-2005, 11:40am
I'm using a Presonus Tube Pre, it has Phantom power and a tube to soften up the tone. For under a hundred bucks I think it is great.
Ditto on the TubePre!...
Thanks for the recommendation, Dave. I just picked one of these up for my CT-110, and the character and quality of tone was signficantly "amped" up. (Pun intended.)
This was a most excellent discovery, and for not much more than the cost of a quality Direct Box, you get a nice "smoothing," rounding control of the sound, without sacrificing acoustic authenticity.