Jointing problem

[John Bertotti]

Topic says it all, even with a hand plane blade I can shave with the darn edge chips out a little. Should I try a scraper or go to finer abrasives for this joint? I'm leaning towards scrapers, I'm just not sure an abraded edge will be smooth enough for hide glue. Thanks John http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Erk]

I don't think that scapers or abrasives will work as well. What kind of hand plane are you using? In my experience most jack and jointer planes have too "steep" an angle to cleanly cut through heavy curl without tearout, no matter how sharp the blade. I have had good success using a very sharp low angle hand plane for jointing heavy quilt and curl. Good luck.

[sunburst]

John, after you get your plane iron sharp, lay the back of it flat on the stone, lift the back edge a little, and give it a slight back bevel with just a few strokes on the stone. That increases the cutting angle of the iron, and actually makes it a little closer to a scraping cut. It takes more effort to make a cut with the plane, and it's better for hard wood, but mine joints spruce well also.

[Michael Lewis]

This is a good opportunity to tell you folks about the sharpening guide by Brian Burns. He instructs how to sharpen the correct angles and why. Also, how to tune up a plane. This is a great little book for about $10. and provides you with an education that is the foundation of many of your wood working processes. Lots of things get easier when you know what is really going on. Allied Lutherie has it as well as the Japan Woodworker.

[onthefiddle]

Whether to go for a higher or lower angle plane is dependent to some degree on your wood, but I would certainly err on the high side - low angle planes can actually make tear-out worse on some grain.

My Norris has a higher angle than is found normally on Bailey type planes, and I have yet to find a piece of wood it couldn't handle!

Assuming that you're not in the position to pop down to your local antique tool dealer, and pick up that Norris he has on some bargain special offer(!) I would possibly go with John Hamlett's suggestion (though I think I might do this on a spare blade).

Alternatively try and pick up an old wooden Jack or Fore plane. These have lovely thick old laminated steel blades like a Norris - so no chatter, and a blade bed angle slightly higher than a Norris at 50 degrees (York pitch). You will probably need to dovetail a new piece in front of the mouth to close it up, and flatten the sole of course.

Good luck!

Jon

[sunburst]

Other set-up details I forgot to mention, in case you haven't done these things already.
Set the cap iron very close to the edge of your iron, and move the frog forward to close the mouth so that only a thin shaving can go through.
The cap iron and the edge of the mouth act as chip breakers, and the closer they are to the cut, the sooner they break the chip.
Michael's $10 suggestion is a bargain!

[John Bertotti]

I have a low angle block plane and a jointer plane both by Record. I realize my problem in using the block plane. I have in the past clamped my jointer to a bench and slid the wood across it. I can actually get shavings off of it you can see through. I should not have tried the block plane. I, for some reason was thinking lower angle had to be better. I was wrong. Back to the jointer plane. I know I need to invest in a hock blade or some similar thick setup. Any other suggestions? Thanks all John

[onthefiddle]

It sounds like you need an introduction to the art of "fettling" John!

Unfortunately I'm really pushed for time right now, but if you google "plane fettling" quite a few results come up. I don't want to go into detail right now, but I will say that when it comes to flattening surfaces abrasive techniques are far inferior in terms of the accuracy of the final result, to an engineers scraper, a surface plate, and some engineers blue.

Jon

[oldwave maker]

stanley #7, hock blade, clifton sheffield cap iron, good waterstones, veritas sharpening jig, shooting board clamped to table bolted into foot thick adobe wall, taking smaller bites, touching up with fresh utility knife blade scraper, 100 kilos of elbow grease,
blind persistence. all my 'secrets'.
in spite of everything, some flaky wood still sucks!

[sunburst]

John, here's a follow-up picture of the back that you asked about in the tool question thread. It was planed with my #7 plane and rub jointed.

[sunburst]

Here's a closeup of the joint. These pics are after a few passes through the thickness sander with 80 grit.

[PaulD]

John,

Sunburst's suggestion of using a back bevel is a good one that I was going to suggest. I tried finding an article online, but struck out. Sunburst's description works, though; after flattening the back of the iron lift it about 5 degrees and put a slight bevel on the back.

Closing up the mouth to take small shavings and moving the chip breaker forward are also good. Make sure the leading edge of the chip breaker makes good contact with the iron all the way across; hone it if you need to. The chip breaker not only breaks the shaving but helps keep the iron from chattering. If there is a slight gap between the two it can also trap the shaving which will plug up the plane's mouth and possibly cause tearout. Your thought about upgrading to a Hock iron is always good.

A Stanley #7 is great, but for the length of a mando back I would think a #5 would suffice (it's a better general purpose plane anyway). Stanley also makes scraper holders and scraper planes that would be good in this case. The #80 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm) is readily available and inexpensive (should be able to get one for about $25 or $30), but if you come aross a #12 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan3.htm) it is even better since you can adjust the scraper angle. The sole will allow you to scrape a flat surface which is pretty impossible with a handheld scraper.

In addition, try wetting the edge of your wood slightly with water or alcohol. You could try skewing your plane relative to the length of the board as you plane (as opposed to keeping it parallel to the wood). Although I've never tried it, I'm also tempted to try BB's suggestion of bolting your bench to a foot-thick adobe wall... I've needed a reason to build an adobe wall anyway! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Good luck... tell us what works.

Paul Doubek