Lousy gig

[Cary Fagan]

Last night was the third gig that our band (really our weekly jam with some rehearsal)played and I didn't play very well. In large part because I'm sick with bronchitis but that combined with my usual nerves did me in. I managed to sing and do a decent break on one song but then kind of fell apart. I felt panicky about not being able to keep up the pace on the fiddle tunes, and at the best of times I'm not a loud player and worried about being heard--not that I was sure I wanted to be heard. (This wasn't helped by another, better player, usually on guitar, but now with a new Mando, who was playing loud and "aggressively" as someone put it, and actually stole two breaks me. I felt rather intimidated.)After the gig I just felt, maybe I'm not cut out for performing in public and should stick to jamming and playing for my own pleasure at home.

Anyone want to give me a pep talk?

[mpeknox]

The way I look at it, if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I used to jam with some people that decided they want to do a weekly "show" at a church. #The enjoyable jam suddenly turned into band practice and started to feel like work. I bowed out and have been happier ever since. Life is too short and music is too much fun for it to become a hassle. That being said, if you usually have fun playing with these people I'd recommend giving it another chance.

[Kbone]

I remember i was doing a gig at Knights Of Columbus and our lady banjo player ( when i was doing a fiddle tune ) came up to me as I was playing and started waving her hands and pointing at me , to say wow look at that guy - I just lost it totally at that point and forgot where I was at , and embarassed ( hell yes ! )but life goes on...

[mandopete]

Man, I know how you feel! #My best advice is like what Steve said. #Do it only if you enjoy it. #From there the single best thing you can do is to keep plugging away. #Keep rehearsing and performing. #That's the only way you'll ever get better.

Now I'm going to take a bit of my own medicine. #I've been performing in various bluegrass bands for the past 7 years or so and I'm hitting some walls in trying to get to another level. #I'm not talking about professional or anything, but the bar has been raised for even amateur/hobbyist performance levels as well. #My solution? - see above!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[wayfaringstranger]

Don't let one lousy gig get you down, Cary. Everyone has them, and you're probably being much harder on yourself than your audience would be.

It's a mixed bag for me everytime I play out. Part of me is always feeling a rush after a gig, part of me is fixating on the places where I didn't play well and feeling down. And no matter how bad (or good) a night I had playing-wise, the audience always seems to have fun.

For me, a blown break or a missed vocal line is a bummer, but ultimately just motivation to practice harder. I also try to look at it so that if I *don't* blow a break at a gig, then I'm probably not pushing myself to take as many chances as I should.

Self-criticism is not just limited to us amateurs, either. There's a great scene in the bonus DVD that came with the new Bela Fleck / Edgar Meyer album where the two of them walk offstage after playing a set of truly amazing, beautiful, music and proceed to brutally pick apart their own playing. To me, that says it all.

[grant_eversoll]

Another thing you pointed out that no one has touched on...YOU WERE SICK...that has a lot to do with it...been there done that

[swampstomper]

When I'm not "hitting it" on a given day I go back a simpler style of playing. For example in a fiddle tune I might also (on a good day) have a harmony part, or an octave part, or a jazzier version... when it's not going right I just get back into open D or A and play the simplest melody. Concentrate on getting nice tone out of the instrument, then it will sound nice in the ensemble even if you're not playing up to your potential. Sort of a fallback position. If you've ever played baseball, it's like hitting defensively when you're not seeing the ball too well or haven't figured out the pitcher. Don't try to do too much!

Having said that, if the others in the band aren't supportive, then it's no fun no matter what.

[John S]

Everyone has bad gigs. And you were sick to boot. Nothing to worry about.

I'll offer a piece of advice. I'm not presuming this applies to you, but if it does... never go up on stage with the focus on showing the audience what you can do. This sets you up for nervousness, and it detracts from the main reason I'm sure you picked up the mandolin -- just the joy of making good music on a beautiful instrument. And it also leads to comparing yourself with other musicians (like that other loud mandolin) and putting yourself down. That's all bad.

And if I may be opinionated, my reaction to your description was that's not really a good performance band to be in. In my opinion, jams don't really work well as performance bands. There's too much chaos, too little arrangement, too much redundancy, too little rehearsal, etc. Having two mandolin players, unless arrangements have been worked out where each mandolin has specific complimentary parts to play, is not a great situation for you. And it sounds to me like that other mandolin player is trying to take a bigger bite of the pie by pushing you out of some breaks.

So you were sick, and it was only your 3rd gig, and you're in a band where you have to compete with another aggressive mandolin player. No wonder you think you didn't do well! That's a difficult situation, no two ways about it. Don't beat yourself up over it.

My advice is to keep at it. You'll get better, and don't feel bad about not doing well on a gig, because you're learning a lot in the process. If you can find a situation where you're the only mandolin in the band, all the better. Also, a note about keeping up with the fast tunes -- if you don't feel like you can keep up on a fast fiddle tune, learn a "simple" break for that tune that you can fall back on when you just don't have the speed. Trust me that a simple tune played well is much more pleasing to listen to than a fancy break played badly.

Keep at it!

[knockwood]

I'm entirely new to the mandolin, but not quite as unfamiliar with bad gigs. Sounds to me like a fewfold thing.
1) Sick. 'Nough said.
2) Maybe you're gigging with the wrong folks. As some have pointed out already, no point doing it if you don't enjoy it; however, I'm assuming you do enjoy it or you wouldn't be so bummed about it not going well. But feeling inferior/intimidated and a lot of competetive energy within a jam unit is no good. If you can't escape that, I suggest escape the band. Better for all of you. Maybe hang back for a while and practice like crazy till your confidence is back up... Maybe play easy venues, open mics, etc., where the expectations are different and there's less pressure. Who needs pressure?
3) I guess I really have no third point.

My two cents...

[earthsave]

I'd say keep at it. Those embarassing, humiliating, humbling, frustrating experiences will only make you stronger and better able to handle stuff in the future. And then, if it is like that every time, after you keep at if for a while, and you dont enjoy it, then why do it???!

[mrbook]

There are reasons to perform to perform in public besides the wild applause and big money. When you feel good about your playing, you might want to find out what others (besides your friends, who can never be objective) think of it. Playing on stage is a whole different world where things can happen that have nothing to do with playing music, and I was interested in the challenge of being able to play as comfortably on stage as I do in my living room. It takes time - I got my first guitar at 12, played in my first "hootenanny" (they were called that in the 60s) at 13, and now at 52 I don't think much about getting up to play. I still make mistakes, but they are rarely heard, and you learn to stop obsessing about every note you play and think of how the band sounds. It's fun looking out at an audience seeing people enjoying your music.

Performing isn't for everyone, but it is another way to take your playing to another level. You learn to be part of a band, play under adverse conditions, deal with aggressive musicians, confront or ignore hecklers in the audience, and if you're like me, to not be as shy as you were before you started playing. You will also end up with good stories to tell, good times in a band, and some other people who enjoyed your music.

Practice ahead of time, and don't inflict yourselves on others if you don't feel you are ready. If you find a few people you enjoy playing with, it's great; I would rather play on stage than at many jams, because I know what the players are going to do and I don't have to deal with aggressive musicians trying to take over.

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Two mandolins CAN compliment each other, but only when listening to each other, staying in context with the song, and listening to the other instrumentation/vocals. Even in a jam or jam band situation. IF that's not happening in your group, it's understandable that you feel discouraged or worse after playing.
In two bands I play in this happens once in awhile, and I learned, by sticking it out, it is only temporary (at least in my situation). But if it persists in yours (and if it did in mine), I would step aside and find a more enjoyable situation to play in.
Practices are often thankless work, and not always fun, but very important in that they help solve the who's playing what and when issue. Then, at a gig, there should be less room for that error.
If you have different folks, in addition to a core group, on different nights, they must following the listening proceedure for it to sound decent. One cannot always be forgiving the transgressions of regular guests.

rasa

[Michael H Geimer]

Cary,
You're fine. You're just sick, and little bummed out. No biggie.

I agree with San Rafael about people's need for attention. Hey! I crave it too, and that's why I like to play out. But too often one's attention can turn inward, where it becomes focused on our own playing at the expense of the music around us. When you're 'On' you'll steal people's breaks out of self-involved confidence. When you're 'Off' you end up worrying about missed notes, quite notes, etc. out of self-consciousness.

The real solution is too listen to the whole band's sound. In the right ensemble, someone always has your back. Playing out in public with that kind of support is a true pleasure, no matter what your overall skill level.

I went looking for a middle-ground between the 'under a tree' jams that I find too 'loose', and the proper stage shows where I feel too much pressure to be perfect. We found a couple of small local coffee houses, each with great acoustics (no P.A. needed), and supportive clientele. I keep two regular players, and several 'floaters'. All of us have over 20yrs. playing under our belts ... of course you'd never know it! LOL

It's a sweet spot between the amateur and professional levels that keeps the stress out, while also maintaining the quality of the music.

Perhaps a search for your own 'best fit' musical context is order? It can take some time, but it has been worth it for me. I have never quite felt this free as a musician, as I do now that I have steady gigs ... leading nowhere!

YMMV ... but best of luck, and keep pickin'!

- Benig

[TommyK]

Playing in a band is a team effort. #If you were under the weather, but played hurt, it's not surprising someoneelse stepped in to save the set. Moreso if you were on symptom reducing drugs. Crimany some of that stuff makes me loopy just reading the label. There's a reason they warn you not to operate heavy equipment. #
Don't get down about it. You may get to return the favor some day. #
Next time you are that sick, maybe you should stay home and get well for the next gig. Thank your team member for bailing the band out and move on.
.
As far as Kbone's wellmeaning bandmate trying to yuck it up. #Yeah, humor is loved by audiences the world over, but set the ground rules early. #If yucking it up will be part of the act, practice it so the 'victim' of the yucks isn't blind sided. #Playing music takes concentration.
.

[Cactus Jack]

Never give up, no matter what happens, and eventually you will get to where you want to be. And when you get there, keep going for new dimensions....

[jimbob]

I agree with Cactus Jack....most of the time , the folks in the audience don't even know if and when things aren't 100%....they love the performance. I wouldn't be too hard on myself, if I were you. I have played in public since i was in grade school...beginning with piano recitals, solo contests and most recently , jam sessions in Luanda, Angola. I do it for fun. I have fun doing it and most of the time, the folks in the audience love every minute.
Believe me, I know there is much room for improvement in my musical ability, but as long as you have fun and are giving it your best at the time, it doesn't matter if you make a couple mistakes. Stay with it and "get back on the horse"...keep smilin' and keep pickin'.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Cary Fagan]

I'm enjoying all your replies--a good tonic--and any more are welcome. I just want to add that I play with a really good bunch of people, friendly and supportive, so the problem wasn't them and they would never say a negative word (in fact I got compliments for the song I did). It was more self-criticism. Even if I didn't do the gigs I would continue to jam with these folks. In another two or three weeks we'll be taking our weekly jam to the park, which I love. I do think about 70 percent was being sick and not up to the energy it takes. But I also think that if I can't get in the right spirit and frame of mind then I'll have to seriously question doing it. I hope I can. It's true that it does push you to learn more and play better and I do want that. Also, I did mostly enjoy the earlier gigs. As for the other mando player, probably the best policy is to be straightforward. I'll mention to him in a friendly way about his taking the wrong breaks.

Any more responses? IN the meantime, I'll go and do some pickin'.

[Ken Sager]

Whatever you do, don't take any of it personally. There will ALWAYS be somebody to step on your breaks. You'll be sick now and then. You'll pish some people off, others will love you. There will be bad gigs. There will be dream gigs, too.

Self-doubt and self-criticism are hard things to own. It's even harder when they own you.

Just make your shows an adventure where you get to stand in front of folks and play music. What could be better? Do it with the mind to have fun and you are more likely to have fun...

Good luck,
Ken

[mrbook]

A few years ago, I had a medical problem (spider bite) that sometimes had to be treated with intravenous antibiotics. On the morning of one gig I was really looking forward to I woke up and knew that it was one of those days. Of course, I went and played, then went home and called the doctor (and told my wife). It wasn't my best playing, but still fun, and better than going to the doctor.

The biggest obstacle to playing out is self-criticism. Most people don't notice or don't hear the mistakes you hear (play a tape of a show and see how you can barely hear the errors). They also don't go to find fault, but to enjoy the show and have a good time. If you enjoy playing with the people, you will keep having a better time the more you do it.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Like many have said, keep at it. As far as self criticism, it is good to critique your performance in a constructive way, interms of learning from the gig what you can improve on. But the actual errors, etc. are over and done, and most people probably did not notice. Many times you "hear" your own mistakes because it is not what you intended to do, but unless you hit a real clunker, without knowing what you intended most people will not notice.

I think your idea to talk to the mando player is good. Even though he may or may not cooperate or agree with you, at least you will have it off your chest, and you can move forward one way or another.

Cheers,
Mark

[mandowilli]

Mrbook is so right. People in the audience are not hanging on your every note. The music is flowing past them as part of their whole experience. When I listen to another player all I can think about is what he/she is doing right and what is working!

willi
http://www.onestreetover.net/pages/1/index.htm

Well you were sick. I would of just skipped that gig. But i wouldnt quit yet. Yeah nerves are just part of giggin. Without being nervous before a gig would just be wrong. Have a good time! And stick with it for a while. After quitting you would probably regret it. I have had times when i wanted to quit the bluegrass band im in. But is stick with and it keeps gettin funner!

Pick on and have a good time! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Dan Adams]

We always record our 'gigs' so we can be depressed again and again and again and again and again. Actually we record them to use as a learning tool. You learn more from failure than you do from success.

Did I really play that break "One Fret Away?' Dan

[glauber]

Everyone has bad gigs. And you were sick to boot. Nothing to worry about.
What he said. At least you have a pretty good chance that your next gig will be better than your last.

[GTison]

I've found that some cold medicines make me depressed about things. Maybe it's that.
when playing on stage plan for being nervous a little. If you plan your breaks, simplify them some to make them easier to play this will give you more confidence which is very important on stage. If after a gigs you still think you might not be cutting it, maybe you should re-evaluate why you are in the band. Are you helping or hurting the show. If its all just for fun anyway, just stick with it. You'll get better at your stage stuff. I do find it harder for me to find time to develop my own mandolin skills while gigging alot.

[mandroid]

I found previous bandmates did the math and fee splitting worked out better without me.
Reminds me of HS PE sports teams. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Brad Weiss]

This wasn't helped by another, better player, usually on guitar, but now with a new Mando, who was playing loud and "aggressively" as someone put it, and actually stole two breaks me. #I felt rather intimidated.
I guess no one should pick your friends for you, but boy, I would hate to play regularly with somebody who makes me feel intimidated. #I have a weekly jam with two of my buddies, all of more or less the same ability as I am- last night a fiddler who has played with us on occasion sat in. He is just a FANTASTIC musician, oozing rhythmic and harmonic ability and a quick study to boot. #But far from being intimidating, he made us all feel (or at least ME feel) like we were playing better than we ever had. #He made us complement one another more effectively, and listen more carefully. We not only played better, but we ended up with a ton of ideas about how the 3 of us could play together in more interesting ways.

I wouldn't understimate the COLLECTIVE dimension of how you're feeling. Good playing (which for me is still just FUN playing) can be as much about fitting in effectively -and other players doing the same!- as demonstrating your chops.

[mrbook]

We all have times when we don't play as well as we want to. When the show is over, those notes are gone, and it's on to the next performance. Unless you are told to never come back, it means you "live to play another day," as I tell our band.

[mandoaz]

Nothing is worse than the day after a lousy gig...Self-doubt and self-criticism rear their destructive ugly heads and the bad moments from the night before replay in your head over and over...I've been there, man...it happens, but don't let one bad gig discourage you or rattle your confidence. You mentioned that you got a compliment on one of the tunes you played on...Focus on that...

I agree with everyone else here who mentioned that your mistakes are probably exaggerated in your own mind and much less apparent to your audience...As far as the panicky feeling and your "usual nerves," as you put it, welcome to the club...I've played a lot more than 3 gigs and I still get nervous on stage...For that matter a lot of famous, talented performers have openly admitted to the "stage fright" phenomenon. What always makes things worse when I'm "in the moment" and I make what I perceive to be a mistake, is when I start dwelling on that mistake. This leads to more mistakes because I'm looking backwards instead of moving forward to play what lies ahead and the whole thing starts snowballing...Ah yes, that panicky feeling, I know it well...

But anyway, if you can laugh off your mistakes and move forward, that's the key...And the more gigs you play, the less your nerves will bother/control you...I still remember one of my first gigs--my stomach knotted up, and I was sure I would vomit any moment...Just keep at it...It will get better...:)

Mike

[Cary Fagan]

Thanks to all for the level-headed advice. I will certainly play the next gig and see how it goes.

[Larry Simonson]

I seem to have 3 levels of playing, in deceaseing proficiency: home alone, in a jam, and on stage. My theory is that proficiency at any level is proportional to the time spent at each level. My goal is to decrease the differences between them, and for this I needed lots of "on stage" time and luckily I'm getting it and the theory seems to be valid.

We can easily develop expectations based on our "at home alone" skills that are unreachable when "on stage" and this makes self criticism very easy and convincing.

I really like the idea expressed above of listening to the band instead of worrying about which note you're playing and intend to give it a try.

[Michael H Geimer]

I can hit more notes cleaner and faster at home, but I play best in front of people.

At home, I think about my technique, my tempo, my fingerings, my pick grip, etc.

In public I'll just think about the song I'm playing, and how it sounds, how it flows, how it feels.

If you try to judge a public performance by the yardstick of a practice session, you might *seem* to be a failure. And if you judge yourself that way during a performance ... you might very well become a failure!

My advice: Let go of the techinique critique when it's time to play. Instead of listening for your own mistakes, turn your attention outwards and listen instead for your bandmates sucesses!

Showmanship trumps all! (Karoke is such a sad proof of that statement)

- Benig

[duuuude]

"Showmanship trumps all!"

Yep, that's exactly why i've been working on my juggling. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Cary Fagan]

I should add that as it turned out, several of the guys were less than happy with the gig. There has been a lot of emailing with ideas on making things better, I'm glad to say. And I've had some direct emails from players about the issues that directly concerned me.
Tonight's our first jam since the gig and I plan to have fun!