View Full Version : maxed out truss rod
Izaac Walton
Apr-12-2005, 1:35pm
I've got a mandolin with a truss rod tightened all the way, and there's still a bit more relief than I'd like. What can be done to remedy this situation?
TommyK
Apr-12-2005, 1:47pm
1. Is the neck straight from fret 1 to fret 12 or so? Lay a straight edge inbetween two strings. Is there day light between the straight edge and frets 5 and 6? Does it rock back and forth over these middle frets and you can't get your straight edge to touch 1 and 12 simultaneously?
2. How much relief you talkin' #In inches please, I'm metrically challenged.
3. What breed of mando you got there pardner?
Izaac Walton
Apr-12-2005, 1:52pm
When I fret the G string at the first fret, and at the same time hold down the G string at the 14th fret, there's about 1/16", maybe less, of space or "relief" between the string and the fretboard. I'd like to reduce that amount if possible.
jim_n_virginia
Apr-12-2005, 2:06pm
Sounds like you need a neck reset but only a qualified Luthier can tell for sure.
You might be reaching the end of the threaded part of the rod. If you remove the nut on the end of the truss rod and add a couple of small washers to take up about a 16th to 8th of an inch you might be able to snug the truss rod a little tighter.
Good luck.
TommyK
Apr-12-2005, 4:41pm
Another way to check neck straightness I'd forgotten.
Try the washers under the nut 250sc suggested. If, after getting the neck straight, the action is too high, a neck re-set may be in order if you're saddle is bottomed out.
Mandobar
Apr-12-2005, 5:26pm
someone told me that about a guitar i had several years back. my luthier did something to relax the neck and the truss rod freed up and he was able to adjust it. he used a machine he designed which basically relaxes the neck.
Jim Hilburn
Apr-12-2005, 7:20pm
In one of his fretwork video's, Dan Erliwine suggests putting a woodblock in the space between the nut and first fret and another near the body joint, then a stiff, heavy board on top of those. you can then use a clamp in the center of the neck to assist the trussrod in straightening the neck, and maybe put a 75-100w. bulb on it to influence it to stay in that shape.
However, I must say I haven't personally done much of this kind of work, but it seems like it would work.
El Rey del Mando
Apr-12-2005, 8:21pm
Izaac,Jims post is good info,If you use this method,I would use a heat lamp,keep a close eye on it and in about a half hour it should be hot enough.I hope your neck is maple though,because maple has a memory and when it cools it will stay.Other woods will not work the same for you.Always take all the string tension off the neck before hand and never make truss rod adjustments under string tension.It is best to let it sit a while before you tune to pitch again.
john
fatt-dad
Apr-13-2005, 12:07pm
Here's yet another suggestion: have your fretboard releveled. I just received back an Alvarez A-400 that had too much relief on the fretboard. Well, Lou Stiver did a partial refret and planed the necked portion of the fretboard to remove the relief. Replaced the frets and voilla, it's perfect. I would recommend this method as it seemed to work great and not as expensive as a neck set.
f-d
mrbook
Apr-13-2005, 12:21pm
If the problem is too much relief rather than high action, and you have reached the end of the threads, I found a samll metal "spacer" at the hardware store that worked well. It was a tube about 1/4" long, and half of it was just right.
acousticphd
Apr-13-2005, 2:09pm
You might be reaching the end of the threaded part of the rod. If you remove the nut on the end of the truss rod and add a couple of small washers to take up about a 16th to 8th of an inch you might be able to snug the truss rod a little tighter.
Interesting thread, as I have the same issue with a mando I really like, and would like to fix. I also tried installing a couple of washers under the truss rod nut, but this didn't improve matters. The nut cavity is so cramped, raising the nut with washers brought it too close to the cavity walls to get a tool on it. I think my neck is a candidate for either a new or planed fingerboard, or the heat-and-straighten operation. Neck resets will not address relief, though.
fatt-dad
Apr-14-2005, 7:40am
I think my neck is a candidate for either a new or planed fingerboard, or the heat-and-straighten operation.
I had my Gibson A-3 undergo the heat-and-restraighten operation with no followup issues (it's been about 20 years now). For my most recent repair (the Alvarez A-400 Martin clone), I discussed the HARO (heat-and-restraighten operation) with Mr. Stiver and he was of the impression that replaning was a) easier and 2) as effective. If the neck wanted to bend in the first place, his thought is that you run the risk of straightening something that wants to go back. The replaning allows the neck to stay in it's position, where it is likely to be happiest.
f-d
Jim Hilburn
Apr-14-2005, 8:52am
This story doesn't add any new info and isn't really about mandolins, but it kind of fits here.
In about 1980, I saw black Les Paul import copy in a thrift store for $75. I couldn't pass it up. But it had a very wavy neck on it. I took it to Mike Kemnitzer (Nugget) and he spent about a week heating, clamping and influencing that thing. But he got it just about dead straight. I bet he'd never fess up to having that old thing in his shop along side those great mandolins he was making.
I got rid of it soon after, but I bet it's still straight.
acousticphd
Apr-14-2005, 11:55am
I had my Gibson A-3 undergo the heat-and-restraighten operation with no followup issues (it's been about 20 years now). #For my most recent repair (the Alvarez A-400 Martin clone), I discussed the HARO (heat-and-restraighten operation) with Mr. Stiver and he was of the impression that replaning was a) easier and 2) as effective.
I took my mando to a shop and showed the problem to the technician, and asked his recommendation on the HARO idea. I should say that this was primarily a high-end guitar shop, and not mando specialists. He seemed to want to steer me away from HAROing. I'm inclined to think the FB replane is a good approach, but I think I would rather start with a new, thicker FB first. Taking wood away from a neck that already wants to bend would have to make it less stiff and encourage it to bend further, wouldn't it?
I had a mando with a max'd out truss and my luthier said the best thing to do would be to take off the fretboard, remove the old truss, and then rebuild it back up. Once the fretboard was off the neck would need planing to get it flat again. Then the new truss could be installed and the fretboard and fretwork re-done.
fatt-dad
Apr-14-2005, 1:09pm
And 50 years later, folks are asking, "who every came up with 'haroing' as a term for straightening a neck"? Hey, as long as their at it, get a radius on the fb too!
f-d
Izaac Walton
Apr-14-2005, 1:14pm
Lee957 - What's the word on the 2-way truss rods? And could they replace a traditional type in the procedure you described?
Issac, my few words have exhausted my knowledge. You might want to pursue this up in the Builders forum.
otterly2k
Apr-14-2005, 1:42pm
Izaac,
What Lee said.
Ask the builders.
In the OM I just built, we put a two-way truss rod. It was Don's (the teacher's) idea based on his experience with building...and I think do-able partly because I had a shorter scale than the other OM's. But I"d be lying if I said I fully understood the differences between single and double.
KE