Mandolin Setup

[Wayne Webb]

OK,
They've approved the refund on my son's new MK. Before I send it back, I'm going to try at least adjusting the bridge. Looking a little closer I noticed that the bridge isn't sitting between the little nicks in the f-holes. Shouldn't it be exactly between them? Also, when playing harmonics at the twelth fret and then fretting there, the fretted note is noticeably sharper than the harmonic one. At least that is one way of testing bridge position on a banjo. Don't know if that applies to the mandolin. There are little slide/scuff/scratch marks showing about 3/32 of an inch on the tailpiece side of the bridge and the bridge is actually tilted toward the neck enough that you could slide a playin card under the back edge. the feet aren't sitting flat on the top. This is the way the mando came to us. I'll adjust it on my lunch break today. Will that make a lot of difference? We'll see.

[fatt-dad]

I never mess much with the harmonics. But, play the open string and use your electronic tuner to get it to the correct note (i.e., eadg) then note the 12th fret. If it's sharp, then the bridge is too close to the nut. If it's flat then it's too close to the tailpiece. Slide accordingly, making sure you don't mar the finish.

Someone may have more to offer, but that's about all I can say with respect to intonation.

f-d

[steve in tampa]

Look at it this way. If the instrument is not in proper intonation, it cannot resonate as it is supposed to, and will not sound like it is designed to sound.

Like the cornflake box says, "Some settling may occur during shipping."

Any new instrument should be set up. Check to see if the bridge is fitted properly, as in no gaps where it is supposed to contact the top.

If the place where you bought it can do some adjustments, it could very well improve the sound to acceptable.

They should have done that before it went out the door.

[ShaneJ]

There will likely be a big difference in sound on any mandolin between an ill-fitted bridge and a properly fitted one. Also, the 12th fret harmonic should will be identical in pitch to the fretted note at the 12th fret. If they don't match, the bridge "north/south" position is off. A good tuner will help you determine if the notes match. You might want to get a good bridge fit and setup before giving up on the mando. Then again, if you're not happy with it and they approved a refund you might want to go that route before having any work done on it that could either cost you $ or negate the refund option.

[RMH]

Getting the bridge in the right spot and getting it to sit flat will definitely make a difference! #If after adjusting that, you are still not satisfied, consider this: #It looks to me like you are going down the same road I've been on for years. My son (now 22) started playing guitar, banjo and mandolin at age 5 and is now very accomplished on these instruments. #I learned some hard lessons through the years, and spent some good money on fancy looking imported instruments that were hard to play and didn't sound very good. You should be very proud of your son. #It sounds like he knows the value of a dollar and is serious about the music. #There is a good chance a boy like this will be looking at owning a Gibson F or a #Collings in 6 years. "He has his heart set on an f style" #My advice is make that a future goal. #Get something now that will play well, sound great, and hold its value. Talk to him about how cool it is to own a hand made American instrument and help him trade up over the years. #You are $361.00 away from a late 80's Flatiron Festival A.
Ron

[fatt-dad]

Also, the 12th fret harmonic should will be identical in pitch to the fretted note at the 12th fret.
O.K. here I am as the propeller head engineer. When you note the string, there is some stretch just from pushing the string down. This stretching may have some affect on the pitch. I understand (in principal) that the harmonic above the 12th fret should be the same note as the open string, but is it "better" to set the intonation with the fretted note at the 12th fret rather than the unfretted harmonic? I don't know other than to say, I don' play many harmonics, but I do play alot of fretted notes.

f-d

[ShaneJ]

I've wondered the same thing, fatt-dad - about the stretching of the string, etc. My thinking (for whatever THAT is worth!) is that I want it to be on pitch when fretted since you will notice if the intonation is right or wrong when fretting notes up the neck. I'm sure there's no way to get one in perfect tune since the amount of stretch when fretting a note will vary a little at different points up and down the fretboard. Maybe that Zager guy that sets up Sigma guitars could help us out! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[J. Mark Lane]

It seems to me that one of the real challenges for a *good* mandolin builder is the challenge of getting the intonation right in light of the problem Carl identifies. But generally speaking, I would think it would be very difficult to build an instrument that had the exact same intonation on the harmonic as on the fretted note at the 12th fret.

[Wayne Webb]

Well,
I loosened up the strings and moved the bridges between the center nicks on the f holes, made sure it was sitting flat, tuned up, adjusted the feet for flat-footed-ness again. Before doing all this, I noticed the bridges sitting about1 13/16'' from the right f hole(looking from the tail end) and about 9/16 from the left one. So, before tuning up, I moved it more to center. After tuning up, I looked down the neck from the tailpiece toward the peghead and noticed the strings are skewed over to the left and the tailpiece is cattywhompas too.

The bridge is sitting flat on the soundboard now. BTW, if the bridge wood is solid black, doesn't that indicate it is ebony? Rosewood isn't that black is it.
The rosewood fingerboard is a pretty brown with slightly lighter streaks in in. Rosewood isn't that black is it.

Anyway, it didn't help the sound much if any.

[GBG]

Match the notes on the fretted 12th and the harmonic 12th frets on the E and G strings, especially, and don't worry about the position of the bridge in relation to the f holes, etc. If that doesn't substantially help the tone, take it to a luthier for his opinion, or get rid of it. IMHO a good used A model with f holes (more sound for the dollar)may be a better choice for your son if he has some talent and desire to play, unless he has an "image problem" and has to have an F model.

[Stillpicking]

As far as I know all of the MKs come with a rosewood bridge.
I think what happens a lot is if it looks a little too light or red they might "blacken" the wood for that ebony look.

MKs advertise all of their mandos has having a rosewood bridge with maybe the exception of one of their top of the line models which I think might also have an ebony fretboard. You can go right to the MK website from the front page here on the cafe. MK has all of the specs. for each model they make on their site.

I am still of the opinon that MKs are a very good mandolin for the money but if you want the very best out of any mid- range mandolin you will want to have it professionlly setup.

It makes sense that for the money a lot of the mid-range import mandos won't get the extra time at the factory for a professional setup. Both of my MKs needed to be setup and played for a while before the tone and sound got to my liking. Although some have claimed their MK was great right out of the box. I am thinking that if one is new to playing mandolin then judging it right out of the box might not be the correct approach for evaluating the instrument. Have you asked your son if he wants to keep it? The "F" look might be the motivating factor for him at least for now, kids are funny sometimes as to what will spark them creativly.

If you have the bucks and he just has his heart set on an "F" and the MK is just not good enough get him a used "F" there is a ton of used "F"s out there more than I have seen in the last few years.

But again maybe a setup tech. person that does it for living should be able to make that MK better than when it came out of the box. I know that for sure because I have improved both of my MKs with a few extra bucks.

Good luck

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

Look at the Folk of the Wood website. There is a slide show tutorial.

http://www.folkofthewood.com/

Even I did it.

Also, look to www.frets.com

[cbarry]

Hi,
My MK is getting the tailpiece moved to the center as we speak. I noticed the strings were pulling toward the bass side. My luthier estimated he'd have to move it by almost an eighth of an inch! Granted, it was purchased used, with an aftermarket tailpiece added before I got it. He's also shaving the bridge feet so I can adjust the action as low as I'd like.
He said it was the second MK he'd seen in a week. The other one was brand new, needed the tailpiece moved and a complete fret job! I do like the way it sounds and looks, though. I'm hoping that this work will make it right and I won't have to go mando shopping for a while...unless I want to!
Chuck

[warren]

With all respect we seem to be trying to breath some life into a dead mando. the Johnson didnt need all this FXXXXng around with! the Johnson didnt need a set up. I know a set up is important but we rarely hear of fenders, or johnsons needing this much attention. For that price if the bridge is in the right place, and the action is playable youre not gonna get much more out of it by paying someone to tinker around with what is a cheap instrument. Granted the MKs are a step up but its obviously not what you were hoping it was going to be, take the refund do some more research, try a few out buy what you can afford that suits your ears (and eyes). If you keep it you will never love it no matter what you do to it and you will inevitably end up buying another so as Gibson used to say "save money buy your second instrument first"

[Jasper]

Did I miss a previous thread? I guess what I am really asking is, "Why are you trying to fix the darned thing when you are getting a refund?" Do they not want the instrument back? Anyway, I agree with Warren...get one that is set up reasonably well and plays decently. How old is your son? And is this his first mandolin?

[Greenmando]

Hi Wayne
I had the same problem with the MK I had.
Could not get a proper octave in any case. The problem ended up being a wrong layout on the fretboard.