Michael Kelly mando sound is weak

[Wayne Webb]

Hey all,
I would appreciate a little help.
I bought my son a little Johnson A style, plywood top mandolin about a year ago and he does so well I upgraded him to a Michael Kelly legacy FS. At least that is what I thought I was doing.
It's a pretty little thing(about $539) but sounds like it's poured full of mollasses or wrapped up with ducttape. It just sounds weak and plinky, has no ring or resonance to it and little sustain. Almost like its clamped in a vise. It doesn't really sound any better than the ply-top Johnson even though it is solid carved. I compared it to my sister's Eastman(about $1000) and there's no comparison. The Eastman is much richer, much more resonant and of course is more expensive. But I played my buddy's Lark in the morning(about $300) and it tops the Michaelo kelly and the Eastman. I can't afford to buy a top dollar instrument right now but my son has such potential that I don't want no real junk either. I thought these Mickael Kellys were pretty decent. Is it possible we just got a dud? The store says they'll swap it for another or refund, whicheever I want. But Im not sure another one can sound much better. Does anyone have a suggestion for a sweet sounding taterbug in the $500 range?
Thanks for the help.

[Jim M.]

Yes, it's probably a dud. Return it, and try out some others. Eastman makes a 500 series mandolin that retails about the same as what you paid. Check them out at the usual places. Also, Mid-Missouri makes very good flat-top, oval hole mandos in that price range.

[Eric F.]

If you want resonant and rich for $500, definitely try a Mid-Missouri. If you just have to have F holes, good luck. I think the Eastman 500-series might be the best you'll do.

[dtb]

not trying to say great things about MK.....it could be a dud.....or would a set-up, and maybe some opening up be in order. Or get the Eastman. I kinda thought my MK wasn't very good too, but some tweaking, an Allen TP, and I feel like mine is what it should be for the price. But I would also say, my next upgrade may just be an Eastman of some sorts.

[John Flynn]

I've played several MKs. Personally, and I apologize in advance to my friends who own them, my impression has always been that they look great, have great fit and finish, great playability and a great price for all of the above. But the tone has always sounded dead to me on every one I've played, including the top of the line "Elegente." If you exchange it on a new one, you might be right back where you started.

Some things to consider, though: Your kid is not being hurt by the poor sound, unless you have already planted the seed in his mind he should be dissatisfied with it. For a beginner, playablity is the issue. A set of TI strings and a good set up will make it play better and sound better. Also, it should open up some as it gets played. If you decide to trade on a different MK, make sure you get to play the new one and are sure you like it better. If it were me, I'd wait 'til the kid can really play well and wants to start playing out, and then get him serious upgrade. I would have been in 7th Heaven to have learned on an MK and there wasn't much I did in my first 10 years of playing that would have required anything better.

[dtb]

well said Johnny on the spot. I couldn't agree more.

[GeoMandoAlex]

I have a MK Firefly. At first it didn't sound good when I was in Jacksonville, FL. The E string had a buzz to it, there was no sustain o volume at all. I took it to Kevin Kneeburg in JAX and he did a really good set up. The problem with mine was the bride did no sit fluch on the top. I changed to an Allen tailpiece a few months later and it's opening up. It has a lot more sustain and volume it didn't have when I first got it. It seems that the tone is starting to mature. Also, I posted in a thread a few months ago, the flame is starting to appear on the back and sides.

Getting to the point, get the MK set up correctly. Mine improved leaps and bounds after my set up.

[J. Mark Lane]

Very diplomatically said by MandoJohnny. I would say it rather more bluntly -- that's how they all sound.

I would respectfully disagree with Johnny on one point -- the suggestion that your son isn't being "hurt" by the poor sound. He is. Young music students can hear, too. Something that sounds like cr*p is not going to inspire him to play. Something that sounds good will. You may as well leave him with the plywood Johnson as get him something that "looks prettier" but doesn't sound any better.

I also agree with the suggestion that for $500 a Mid-Mo is about the best you'll get. But that "look" may not inspire him, and the sound of the Mid-Mo is not the "bluegrass sound" at all; it's a different kind of instrument. So if you want a "bluegrass sound" in a better quality instrument for under a grand...that's a tough call. My own personal experience was that the Eastmans were not much better than a Michael Kelly, but I have been challenged on that statement. If an Eastman sounded ok to you, maybe that's the answer.

You might also check out the following link:

http://home.comcast.net/~fatt-dad/mando4sale.html

The owner of that site (and those mandos) is a regular here, and I've never heard anyone say anything bad about him. A couple of those mandolins would be great improvements over the Johnson at a very good price.

Mark

[fatt-dad]

Thanks, I'm flattered. I've never played either the MK or the Eastman, so I have no opinion. But, I continue to be amazed with my Flatiron 1N. Other than not having "the look", I would certainly recommend one of these (albiet they only come used) as a $500.00 mandolin (mine's not for sale though).

f-d

[adgefan]

Wayne

I own an MK Legacy too, and the sound can be just fine if you set it up correctly. However, I have changed things around and found it can completely kill the sound. For example I have found that

- light strings can sound *really* bad on it, very metallic and dead. I use GHS A260s or J74s. These can sound really nice.

- the action cannot go too low otherwise the sound goes dead, as you describe. Try adjusting the bridge a little higher and the resonance is much better.

- picks can make a lot of difference. I love the Wegen picks but they make my MK sound rather loud but tinny. I have been using tortex picks instead and they are much better.

Of course, a decent mandolin wouldn't react so badly to such minor changes, but once set up correctly, my MK has served me well. Hasn't stopped me deciding I want a Breedlove instead though! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bob DeVellis]

I'm a great believer that the most important thing for a beginner is that an instrument play well. The mostdiscouraging thing to a beginner, in my opinion, is not a less-than-inspiring tone but an instrument that you have to struggle with to get notes ringing cleanly. Such an instrument also teaches bad habits that will have to be unlearned. Most entry-level instruments will sound less than ideal when set up for easiest play, i.e., with lighter gauge strings, lower action. But the trade-off is well worth it, in my estimation. Now, the advantage of a better sounding instrument is that, as hand strngth increases, the bridge can be reaised a bit and the string gauge increase and the tone will improve. On a real dog, those changes will make playing tougher but the tonal improvement will still be minimal.

I'm not sure how this pertains to the particular instruments you have. But more generally, I'd base a decision on what your son should have on (1) getting something that will be easy enough to play that he will improve and develop good playing habits, and (2) if different instruments within your price range are equivalent with respect to #1, then go for better tone.

[steve in tampa]

I have a Firefly w/ electrincs and an Allen tailpiece. It sounded better after the first string change. Went to Gibson Sam Bush, and currently have D'Addrio EXP 75s, and they sound a little better. Got it in July "04 and it sounds better the more that it is played. Even when it is not being played, I keep it on a stand instead of in the case. The finish is pretty thick, and it takes some playing to get the tone to improve. How is the sustain and resonance? Mine was pretty good out of the box.
Make sure the bridge is fitted and placed properly for intonation. If the shop is willing to trade, they should also be willing to make a couple of minor adjustments.

[Wayne Webb]

Thanks for the help guys.
I will look around some more. He has his heart set on an f style.
But I really need to get him a guitar too before he wears mine out. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
He not only plays mando but plays guitar and bass in our church and is starting to mess with my banjo...and he just turned 12.
I have to slow him down when we jam cuz he wants to play everything so cottonpickin' fast. My Oldest son (16) also plays guitar.

Thanks again

[Stillpicking]

I own 2 MKs one is 3years old and the other is about 6 months.

Both needed to be setup and I have added improvements such as solid tailpieces and ebony bridges. Both have responded very well to the upgrades.

The 3 year old has really opened up nicely and his younger friend is starting to follow the same path, both have TI heavies.

Maybe your son might be interested in how you can take an instrument and improve the sound qualities of it. you might want to think about what kind of message your sending out to him; "you just got a bad one" or "only buy such & such because the rest are not any good".

Use it as a learning experience. I doubt very much that the MK you bought your son is made so poorly that it is not worth putting a little time and effort into it. I think sometimes we all are looking for that perfect mando or "thing" that we feel will make us happy or better in someway and we miss the chance to see how it feels to not get the "perfect" thing, situation or person we are looking for. Give him a lesson in being satisfied with what you got him and show him how it can improve with age and care and adjustments.

Sorry guys I am on my soapbox today for some reason, it all started at a workshop I attended this morning.

Peace

Mike

[Kbone]

Well said Mike..

[jasona]

Couple of things: How old are the strings? Is there tape under the bridge? My Kentucky 150S had some under there and it really hampered the tone. If he MUST have an F style I've heard decent things about the Rover RM75 with the dark finish. However, the two I played sound much the way you describe the MK--but my ear might be ruined by playing my Ratcliff (it sounds so nice!). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wayne Webb]

Let me clarify. I purchased the mandolin FOR him thinking I was helping to choose a good one. But, it was his hardearned money. So I feel responsible and want to make sure it's gonna be a good one. He earned the money working on the farm, raising and exibiting his animals in 4-H, and he shovels manure out of horse stalls for a neighbor. He played the fool out of the $50 Johnson and was happy with it. For a kid to forego toys, video games or any other junk to clean out his bank account for a mandolin, I'd say he's a little serious about it. I'm just not sure if upgrades are going to make that drastic a difference in this instrument. I'm not knocking the brand, it could just be the growth rings in the board they cut the top out of for this particular instrument. I don't know.

Thanks Jasona, I'll check the bridge and the other suggestions mentioned above.

Thanks for all the great help and advice everyone..

[Adam Tracksler]

I have a rover RM 75 that I upgraded with an ebony bridge. It sounds pretty good. I would reccomend it for a budget choice and the need for F-holes. I would play a few though. They had 2 at the store I got mine at and they sounded very different. I ended up with a very dark brown one and love it.

[J. Mark Lane]

Upgrades will not help it.

[John Flynn]

Upgrades will not help it.
There is a saying in my industry that applies, because upgrading a cheap instrument is no different than trying to upgrade an ancient computer system, so we say it's "putting lipstick on a bulldog."

[steve in tampa]

I beg to differ on that statement. I put an Allen tailpiece and Grover tuners on a Dean mandolin, and made a real player out of it. The volume just about doubled. Total investment of 125.00, and the parts could be removed and used elsewhere if desired.

[Lane Pryce]

If the vendor will not trade for another then the only $$ I would spend would be cash for a first-class set up with a new nut. Lp

[J. Mark Lane]

Steve, I'm glad you had better luck than me. Maybe your Dean was one of the good ones. I put a Monte tailpiece and a set of Schaller tuners on a Michael Kelly and it sounded...exactly the same as before. Had the same experience with a couple of other low end mandolins.

I have always assumed that a different tailpiece may make a difference on a higher end mandolin, where the instrument is built to closer tolerances and every little thing matters...but that it wouldn't do a thing on a cheap instrument. But hey, every instrument is different, so generalizations are always subject to exceptions, even if they were right in the first place (and I don't claim to have a monopoly on the truth).

I will say this, it was fun swapping out parts on the things.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif