Last evenings jam session .....

[Ray Neuman]

Took the lent Collings mandolin to the jam session last evening. Several of the great players tried it, and approved.

I had a ball, but have to confess to being very frustrated. I have played guitar 35 years, and consider myself a very accomplished fingerpicker, but this flat picking is very new stuff to me. (I worked on Arkansaw traveler all week, got it down, and found out last night I learned it in the WRONG key....sheesh, so next week...)

Kind of feel I was raised in a cave. I can keep up with anything playing rythem, but I dont know the tunes. Never heard them before. SOOOO, talk about a learning curve!!! I love the stuff, but that "learning frustration" is back again. LOL.

The other thought I had, was, after playing this Collings MF5 Deluxe, will I get TOO spoiled for any other mandolin?

I am thinking too much, time to get back to work! lol

the professir with sore fingers.

PS: I had a ball playing with other pickers again.

[gnelson651]

A good rhythm player is also appreciated at a jam. I started playing mandolin last year and have been able to play most tunes as lead because I learned about 50 fiddle tunes so far. The problem is that I didn't take the time to learn the chords; I only concentrated on the melody. Big mistake!

Now, I want to do more backup, which is my goal for this year and my frustration. It seems that too many jammers want to play hot leads and there is not enough rhythm and backup. I remember in another thread how many complained that rhythm is boring.

If one feels that way then mandolin may not be for you unless you play strictly alone or solo. To me, mandolin is backup and rhythm most of the time with some tasteful solos when needed. My goal is to learn this important aspect to mandolin playing. A good rhythm player will made a jam sound great.

[Windflite]

Very nicely stated, gnelson! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Mando4Life]

The groups of folks I used to sit in with played mostly non-BG music so I would just play rhythm along while they played and sang. #I can say that it was one of the better things I did learning to play. #It not only taught me timing but also to "back-off" when others are singing and soloing. The biggest help was that it forced me to learn chords (major, minor, 7ths, etc) and smooth out my changes.

Oh yeah, and it was big load of fun too...I miss it and really need to get back into as well. The pastor doing our wedding had a pickin party a month ago. My brother and I went and it made me remember how much fun it is to just get out and play...

Have fun and keep it up!!

WBL

[Ray Neuman]

I noticed that there are a LOT of people wanting to take the lead. I was having a BALL sitting back barking out the rythems with chopps on this world class instrument. I cut my teeth in a band as a rythem guitar player and my finger picking experience helped me a LOT when they capoed the guitars up 3 frets and played in G. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif(never missing a beat or chord eased a bit of the frustration of not knowing the leads. SMILE)I didnt know the mandolin could play THAT chord! lol

I have no intention of blowing the doors off anyone at the jams, just to sit and grin with some other players.

I expected some frustration, and to be honest, it feels good to be "pushed" again.

professir

[Bluegrass Boy]

Any really great player knows that without a solid rhythm player, the music aint happening. It's like trying to build a house without first laying down a solid foundation. All those who just want to get out into the lead, well, if the music calls for it, go for it. But if it's just to show your thing, remember, it aint about you, it's about the music. That's my take anyhow.

[John Flynn]

That is what is so great about mandolin: Rhythm, lead, chord/melody combos, harmonies, cross picking, the potential is there to do it all. Other instruments may be able to do one or two of those "better" than the mando can, but I don't think any instrument can do the whole range of roles as well the mando can. At the old-time jams I go to, if the fiddlers don't know a tune, they are just stuck and have to sit it out. If it is any waltz, all but the very best banjo players have to sit it out. The guitarists are always on rhythm, period. But the mando can to whatever the mando player is capable of, participating fully and flexibly in every tune, being able to color the overall sound of the group based on the mode chosen. Ya gotta love that!

[twaaang]

And if you have the discipline to learn solid rhythm, and your buddies get used to it and listen for it, you can keep the tempo from running away on you. (I keep telling myself!) -- Paul

[dj9124]

Is there any teaching material out there for rythm chopping and backup for mandolin. I have seen lots of stuff for learning songs but nothing for what the mandolin does most of the time. I too learn mainly lead to songs as I do not have any opportunites to jam with people due to my work schedule. If there is a good resource for rythm I would love to hear bout it. Thanks.
Dave

[justwrite]

I've been playing for a couple of years now -- sheesh, can it really be that long?! I played guitar for years before that and never tried to play lead publicly. With mando, I can work out some fairly decent stuff if I practice, but I just really enjoy chopping! A friend showed me how to do the three or four bluegrass finger patterns that you can move up and down the neck to play all sorts of chords. I even play one song in E-flat, which I would never attempt on the guitar without a capo.

[gnelson651]

Thanks Windflite,

I think I learned rather quickly that playing lead all the time was not much appreciated by others in the jam when it was their turn to solo. I would get dirty looks if I continued to play the melody over someone's solo.

Now that I have started to learn chops or chord along with the rhythm of the music , I get nods and smiles of approval. My next step is to learn fills and licks.

[doublestop]

Don't worry about just playing rhythm. It's a good start to playing lead. In my opinion, if'n you don't know the chord progression, you can't play a decent lead.

[gnelson651]

doublestop. Feb. 26 2005, 08:15


In my opinion, if'n you don't know the chord progression, you can't play a decent lead.

Actually I was able to play lead very well without knowing the chords. #I would memorize the song melody note for note. Sometimes I would memorize variations of a song so I could vary my presentation.

I would agree that if you want to improvise, knowing the chords is critical.

[doublestop]

Yes, you are right. I should have said improvise.

[250sc]

I've found that when I learn a new tune I first chart out the chords so I understand how the melody works against them and have an idea what the bass line will be. Then I learn the basic melody and finally with these two parts of the puzzle put together I start trying different ideas for soloing.

If you don't learn the chords you can't understand the melody well enough to play a solo of more than the basic melody played over and over again. (not too stimulating to the players or listeners.)

I find playing rythm on mando an interesting challange. There are times when a basic chop will be the most appropriate course of action but there are also times when open chords (irish, folk, oldtime) or even altered, jazzy sounding voicings (Dawg, jazz, swing, latin or even BG if your following a walking bass line to kick up the energy level for a solo) can work.

Being able to play rythm is essential to understanding your instrument and it's relationship to the music and just like with soloing, you can always learn something new and interesting.

When i first started all i did was rhythymn for are bluergass band. They appreciated it, and as i got better and into pickin they appreciate me even more.