Picks !

[Kbone]

I was reading the article on Jimmy Gaudreau in the mando mag and found it interesting that he uses a very flexible pick , also when i did the workshop with Frank Wakefield he was using a flexible nylon pick. I know there are others as well - Jesse Brock , Don Stiernberg , Steve Kaufman ,-any
others ? The volume seems better to me with a more flexible pick and in a jam setting that's important , but the tone isn't as good - any thoughts...

[John Flynn]

Curtis Buckhannon uses thin or medium Fender large rounded triangles to play his 1920 A-2. He likes a lot of flexibility and I think it is one element of his signature sound. He plays really fast and he tends to keep notes ringing across multiple strings simultaneously, using double stops and crosspicking. Using a large, flexible pick seems to make sense for that. I have tried those picks and I just haven't warmed up to them, but I am keeping an open mind.

I am not sure I completely agree that a very flexible pick gets you more volume, though. I think volume and tone is maximized with a pick that has the right amount of flexibility and the right profile for the strings you are using and the way you play. The loudest pick for me is the Dunlop Ultex 1.0. The 0.8 is too flexible and I feel I lose both volume and tone. The 1.14 is too stiff and the strings don't get that little "snap" on the release, so I lose volume. It really does come down to being sensitive to the way you are playing and choosing a pick that works best in that context. The "best answer" is different for different players.

[wallflower]

I disagree. #I think volume is louder with a thick pick. #The volume comes from the wrist and attack. #With a thin pick you can get away with a stiffer wrist.

I think tone is always better with a thick pick made of good material. #

Your results may vary...

[futrconslr]

I think volume may be louder with a thin pick but its also real tinny. At least thats been my experience. I do think you can go to heavy though. I try to stay 1.5 or below.

[Kbone]

To play fast with a real stiff pick you have to hold it very loose and let it move between your index finger and thumb , therefore it cuts the force of impact ( pick striking the strings )but there are exceptions , and I've seen it ( ak Rob Coleman )where the picker is so strong he can drive a real stiff pick holding it semi/tight. Maybe Johnny is right , the happy medium is a 1.0. I have been switching back and forth for the last 6+ yrs , and can't seen to settle on a thinkness..

[mandroid]

Bending a thinner pick between thumb and 1st and 2nd fingers will selectively stiffen it up, somewhat,dunlop texturised nylon ones are good for this , check it out , sometime..

[wallflower]

With a loose enough wrist, you can generate a lot of momentum and power which can create a great deal of volume. #Once the momentum is going, the amount of tension applied in holding the pick can be varied for effect.

[doublestop]

Of course there are exceptions, but I don't think that a light pick is conducive to good tone. I once had a mando teacher that used a light pick on an F5-L. His tone was so abrasive I sometimes had to cover my ears. It wasn't the mando.

[ironlionzion]

i just picked up a golden gate pick at the Joe Val bluegrass festival in MAss. never though i could use one that thick but i love it now, sound great although it took me a while to get used to. (its much thicker then the 56 i was using in the past)
sTEVE

[bmac]

I normally use a Fender rounded triangular pick (medium). With it I can get a good tremolo and as much volume as I presently need (want). I also have some Fender light picks and have found that I cannot get the volume I want from them. The string(s) are released by the bending pick before they are at the tension I want. Hence with light picks I don't get the volume I want.

I don't understand how one can get as much volume from a light pick as a medium pick. In my experience they release the strings too soon for maximum volume.

I have not experimented with heavy picks.

[Paul Hostetter]

I just posted this on a different thread here, but it's pertinent here as well.

I had the pleasure of playing guitar for several decades for a couple of terrific Italian mandolinists, Riccardo Tunzi who was from Ticino in Switzerland, and Tony Flores who was from Sicily. In those years I played with a number of other Italians, and I have to say they were, as a group, the most stentorian mandolin players I have ever heard. In general they played modest instruments, and they all played with the lightest pick - extra thin, cut to a point with a pair of scissors. It's the Italian way. Most of the Wegencrowd wouldn't know what to do with such a pick. They'd also be noodling silently in the background with their fatties.

Last April I played Tony Flores's last concert - he was going down real fast with cancer and just barely managed to make the San Francisco Mandolin Festival. My pals Jody Stecher and Eric Thompson were also on the bill, so they finally had a chance to hear Tony play live. Jody observed that his and Tony's right hand style were extremely similar, and that was correct. Jody's also an incredibly powerful player.

My point here is that getting good volume and projection is more about technique than about instruments, string gauges, gear trivia or action. Tony played J-74s on a Yasuma A-5 copy (pressed solid top, ply body) with very low action. Jody plays the same strings on a fabulous Stan Miller A-5, medium action. Both are real easy to hear no matter what, but Tony's actually louder.

Speaking for myself, I prefer a standard Fender medium for mandolin, which I play on the two more blunt corners, not the tip. Everyone's hands are different, it's worth trying everything until you find what works best for you. But I have to concede after all these years that more is not better, thicker is not louder.

[glauber]

I try every pick i can, but so far i've always come back to the Ultex 1.14 triangle. The one i have now, i left the original point intact and filed the other 2 the different shapes, so it's like having 3 picks. I also beveled it all around, so the edge is rounded and smooth.

I think a heavy pick gives you as much control as a medium pick, as long as you hold it lightly.

I think what happens is once you find a pick that works, it's hard to change to something else, because your playing style adapts to the pick. For the same reason, i try to stay away from the expensive or hard-to-find picks.

Other picks that work for me: Dunlop jazz 207 and 208, D'Andrea Pro-plec triangle, Dunlop "Gator" 1.14, Surfpick triangle (the $10 unfinished one).

All kinds. But for me the heavier the better. Trying new things i always good. But if i have a heavy pick i can keep it going for a good while.

[Kbone]

Thanks for that story Paul - There's a real good mando picker who's been playing in various bands for years, but my one contention was that his sound was very muted and low, even with a mike - then one night I saw him live and his tone was very good and clear, so after the set I asked him about his tone etc..and his response was, he switched to a med nylon pick and chucked his Golden Gate..

[tombob]

the thiner the pick the better for strumming, but its harder to get ny decent trills going, personally i use dunlop thumb picks on bass (alowing me to use fingers as well), dunlop jazz picks on guitar to get that sharp rockabilly kinda thing going on, and for acoustic and mandolin dulop torax 0.73mm/0.80mm picks, these are made of rubber diposite, so they dont slip so easily, theres loads of variations of pickjs around, ive seen some wiht a rubber grip on them, and theres others where it lopps over ur index finger and runs to your thumb n index. a good idea it seems, but more pricey

[John Bertotti]

Inspired to make my own from a post on quills and plectrums in the classical section, I have made a discovery. The stew mac pick guard material comes is three thicknesses. It sands and polishes easily and allows you to experiment with shapes and sizes and thicknesses. I have found with this material that I have better tone with a pointier end and a bit of flexibility. My current pick sounds better then anything I have ever purchased. Probably because it is made for me and my instrument. Use this material and try to make your own, it is an eye opener. I tried modifying existing picks and thought they turned out good but when I started from scratch with this stuff it blew me away. John http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


Just wanted to add to what Paul is saying above. I had a class with Richard Walz an outstanding classical player. One drill he had me doing was just following through with the plucking of the string till I was resting on the next string. Just plucking away just as firmly as I could. He made me do this till I had the volume to continue. Now I practice that and variations of that just for volume. Probably didn't help you much but thought it was to much of a coincidence after reading what Paul wrote. John http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Tom C]

My main pick used to be a heavy gibson jazz teardrop. For a heavy pick it is pretty thin. But because it is small, my thumb crosses the whole pick, the part not hidden between the fingers that I pick with is pretty ridged. It's not loud but great tone. I have since then switched to Wegan. Now I use a pointy pick. When I play too fast there is less tendancy to miss strings, I can play just as quick and cleaner. Tremelos are a bit harder.

[Greg H.]

I go for straight Fender heavys using the corner rather than the tip. They're just about 1.0 mm thick, and seem to have more pop in the attack than most of the heavier picks I've tried. I've got a couple of DAWG picks, and I know a lot of people really like them, but they're just too heavy for me. It's probably my technique but I really feel like the tone is almost muffled using them while with the Fenders I get a much brighter tone.

[CountyFarm]

I was playing a gig the other night, and accidentally pulled a Dunlop Ultex 1.14 out for the first few songs, it didnt feel right so I looked and saw I had the wrong pick. I tried again and found my usual Clayton 1.07 and a member of the audience (the owner of the mando I was playing) pointed out how much better the Clayton sounded right away.
Take a Clayton and drop it on a hard surface, then some other brand and do the same thing, to me the Clayton sounds "better" whatever that is

[Dr. Jazz]

I'm now up to using a Wegen 2.5 mando pick. It's a smaller version of the trimus 250 with 3 rounded points. The heavy pick with the right beveling can almost glide "though" the string without stopping and leaves a nice warm loud tone behind.
Mike

[Keith Newell]

I play in three types of scenarios. By myself, with a fiddle and Bouzoukie, and a session of 8 to 20 players. I was really into the heavy pick scene because #1 everyone said I should and #2 I belived it.
#I then started to play through my collection of about 150 picks and really listening to tones/volume/clarity and paying attention to speed/effort/extra sounds and fluidity.
I have put away my real tortoise picks, my store bought triangular Pro-plecs,Dawgs, Golden Gates, David Grismans and tons of others and settled on the 1.0 Ultex pick.
#I would play by myself and pick a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice pick based on all of the above then play with our trio and maybe reshuffle then pit it against the full session and discovered a few things.
#Solo the heavy thick picks sound just like the recordings I have been listening to, but in a trio they are muddy and in a huge session they are percussive but no tone. The Ultex 1.0 if I turn it just right, keep a loose wrist and relax a bit and play solo sounds as good as the thick pick. If I flatten out the attack angle its a more piercing sound and with the trio its great. With the full session its just a matter of digging in and attack angle and it really cuts through.
#Ask me a year ago I would have been all for the thick pick but now, no. I've played in local sessions for 18 years and just lately made the change. I also belive I have a bit more control, a easier picking strum and I am plenty loud (based on complaintes from session members):)
#Keith

[fatt-dad]

My playing sounds like "four pounds" (####) when I use a thin pick. And with the heavy pick, I just can't seem to get "the feel". I play with a 1.0 Clayton and my dog likes it (it may still sound like four pounds though).

f-d

[Kbone]

$3.00 !!For plastic ? Well, maybe if it had my name engraved on it...

[Bill James]

I tried a 1mm nylon ala Frank Wakefield and to my surprise I like it. At least this week anyway!

It's quite flexible but it produces more volume than the Pro-Plec I was using. The tone seems to be improving the more I play with it. It seems like it would wear down very quickly however.

[Kbone]

actually they wear pretty good Bill - BTW , I've played with three different picks in the last three days _ God help me !!!

[Perry]

I love picks; the fifty cent EQ...Wegens and Tortis a bit more then $.50 http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

For me it's a struggle between what works well for flatpicking, yet has some flex for rythmn. The really thick picks don't feel quite right to me for strummy type chording
I also think that unless you have a really light touch a super heavy pick will make you pick too hard and thus compress the sound of your mando

I like Dawgs but prefer the guitar shape and Dawgs are a bit thick for strummy parts as mentioned...so i tried
Pro Plecs 1.5 ...nice but I chip them very easily. Recently I got a compartment box from a hobby store and organized all of my picks and tried them one by one.

Dawgs are warmer then Golden Gates...Dawgs are warmer then almost everything...see below

Dawgs warmer then Pro Plecs 1.5

Dunlop Jazz 207 pretty good but very stiff

I also tried D'Andrea spectraflex, claytons

My new winner:
Good old Fender Extra heavy. Warm, some flex, smooth, durable, cheap and readily available. I have one Gibson Heavy Jazz that sounds really good too but it's too small. So i will order some Gibson Extra Heavys...Fender shape...I suspect that I will like them even a bit more then the Fenders.

That is this weeks/months choice....I always seem to return to the DAWGS though.

Happy Picking

perry